Thomas James Brislen MM

[andalucia]

Hi All

From the Liverpool Echo 13th November 1916

Private T. Brislen KLR has been awarded the Military Medal for attention to wounded soldiers. Before joining the Army he was employed by Messrs J. Bibby and Sons, King Edward Street Liverpool. His wife lives at 19 St Domingo Road.

Where can I look to see if any more details can be found on him winning the medal?

He died 11th Apr 1918 in France, serving with 4th King's Liverpool. Family story has it that he died in a train crash? not sure about that one.

Cheers

Ant

[daggers]

Ant

If you put 'Brislen' into the search box at the top of the page and select all forums, you will find other posts about this man.

D

[andalucia]

Thank you Daggers. Im off to look.

Ant

[Ken Lees]

His MM has been sold a number of times in recent years. 4th Bn. if I remember correctly.

[nthornton1979]

Yep, with the plaque but no campaign medals.

Neil

[kathleen donaldson]

There was also a article about him in one of the Journals of the Liverpool and South West Lancs FHS. Got it somewhere in the house.

[KerryBris]

Hello, im not sure if any forums still active, but anyone has any information on Cpl Thomas Brislen, I would love to know, i’ve been researching my family history and he is my great great grandad! Feel very proud.

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. You might find these of interest

 

[Matlock1418]

11 hours ago, KerryBris said:

Hello, im not sure if any forums still active, but anyone has any information on Cpl Thomas Brislen, I would love to know, i’ve been researching my family history and he is my great great grandad! Feel very proud.

Hi Kerry,

Welcome to GWF = Yes, the GWF is very much alive.

Proud you should be. :-)

Since the original threads were posted in 2004 & this one in 2012 other resources have become available - One example is the WFA/Fold3 collection of pension cards [Pension Index Card and Pension Ledger Index Cards that were used by clerks to access/handle the main Ministry of Pensions Pension Awards files.

The main Pension Awards files have been long lost/deliberately destroyed once their use had ended but these cards give a small but interesting insight into a more 'social/socio-economic' side of early post-war life of dependants [and also for other men the post-service life for those survivors with a disability and their families]

There are a few pension cards in this chap's case - this is the main/most informative PIC:

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

BRISLEN, Thomas. 14287, Cpl., 4th Liverpool

Beyond the fairly straightforward details which I reckon you will be able to read for yourself [and likely know] here are a few pointers into interpretation:

= Widow's DoB 28.7.87 was important as age-related supplements to her on-going pension were possible after age 45/later 40 [pension typically would be paid for life - unless she remarried]

= £5 Death grant/gratuity paid to cover funeral expenses and the like - such as newspaper obituary/in-memorium inserts = Always worth looking out for such local newspaper entries [may perhaps be a portrait photo - privately financed as not done for military purposes - also potentially in newspapers prior to his death, as they were the social media of the day, so worth looking over a wider range of dates]  The British Newspaper Archive and Find My Past may have such newspapers online otherwise looking at library newspaper archives.

= The pension [widow's pension and children's allowances] payment of 39/2 from 28.10.18 makes allowance for the fact that the family Separation Allowance continued to be paid for six months after a man's death [in order to allow the pension to be sorted out] - pension took into account his rank of Corporal and number and eventually the ages of the children [who typically became ineligible for an allowance after age 16]

= APB = Alternative Pension Board - His widow applied to get an increased AP [due to his higher pre-service earnings - which she will have to have proved] - it appears she was ineligible [possibly due to lack of proof or because the Standard Pension was higher at that time]

= The stamped DEAD 1931 - this is the date the claim became dead [typically because the widow had remarried or died - rarer for a widow to have given up a pension or had it removed - and the surviving children had typically reached 16.  Unfortunately we can't see the details here though it does look as though the youngest child did probably reach 16 in 1931]

I hope of interest.

:-) M

Edit: If you haven't already picked up on this - There appears to be a 'burnt' Service Record for him on Ancestry, and likely on Find my Past, - eldest child is discussed.

Edited 8 November , 2021 by Matlock1418
edit

[Ivor Anderson]

His MM sold with the death plaque by DNW in 2003 for £240. The listing mentions a newspaper photo of him:

 https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/special-collections/lot.php?specialcollection_id=294&lot_uid=89919

The MM & plaque were later sold on ebay in 2012.

Edited 8 November , 2021 by Ivor Anderson
Additional information

[Matlock1418]

24 minutes ago, Ivor Anderson said:

The listing mentions a newspaper photo of him:

That's a handy lead [but I don't have access] = Liverpool Echo, 13 November 1915

:-) M

Edited 8 November , 2021 by Matlock1418

[PRC]

35 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Liverpool Echo, 13 November 1915

I had it in my head that the Military Medal was only introduced in 1916, (although they were then backdated to 1914) so for a few minutes there you had me scrambling round trying to work out how I could have got things so wrong that a reference to it's award could have been in a November 1915 newspaper.

In fact the picture and (brief) article appeared in the edition of the Liverpool Echo dated 13th November 1916.

Here's the best I could do with a screen grab -

Image courtesy FMP.

Hope that helps,
Peter

P.S. And young M, stop playing with an old mans mind like that - it's not clever and it's not kind

[Matlock1418]

16 minutes ago, PRC said:

In fact the picture and (brief) article appeared in the edition of the Liverpool Echo dated 13th November 1916.

Well done Peter - a great bit of sleuthing!

I hadn't attached the MM directly to the photo [or vice versa] so didn't challenge the 1915 that was earlier suggested.

:-) M

16 minutes ago, PRC said:

P.S. And young M, stop playing with an old mans mind like that - it's not clever and it's not kind

You flatter me with your description - and do yourself a great disfavour!

;-) M

Edited 8 November , 2021 by Matlock1418

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Peter. That's great. In M's defense it was the DNW listing above that had the error! I didn't notice it either!

Edited 8 November , 2021 by Ivor Anderson

[KerryBris]

11 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Hi Kerry,

Welcome to GWF = Yes, the GWF is very much alive.

Proud you should be. :-)

Since the original threads were posted in 2004 & this one in 2012 other resources have become available - One example is the WFA/Fold3 collection of pension cards [Pension Index Card and Pension Ledger Index Cards that were used by clerks to access/handle the main Ministry of Pensions Pension Awards files.

The main Pension Awards files have been long lost/deliberately destroyed once their use had ended but these cards give a small but interesting insight into a more 'social/socio-economic' side of early post-war life of dependants [and also for other men the post-service life for those survivors with a disability and their families]

There are a few pension cards in this chap's case - this is the main/most informative PIC:

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

BRISLEN, Thomas. 14287, Cpl., 4th Liverpool

Beyond the fairly straightforward details which I reckon you will be able to read for yourself [and likely know] here are a few pointers into interpretation:

= Widow's DoB 28.7.87 was important as age-related supplements to her on-going pension were possible after age 45/later 40 [pension typically would be paid for life - unless she remarried]

= £5 Death grant/gratuity paid to cover funeral expenses and the like - such as newspaper obituary/in-memorium inserts = Always worth looking out for such local newspaper entries [may perhaps be a portrait photo - privately financed as not done for military purposes - also potentially in newspapers prior to his death, as they were the social media of the day, so worth looking over a wider range of dates]  The British Newspaper Archive and Find My Past may have such newspapers online otherwise looking at library newspaper archives.

= The pension [widow's pension and children's allowances] payment of 39/2 from 28.10.18 makes allowance for the fact that the family Separation Allowance continued to be paid for six months after a man's death [in order to allow the pension to be sorted out] - pension took into account his rank of Corporal and number and eventually the ages of the children [who typically became ineligible for an allowance after age 16]

= APB = Alternative Pension Board - His widow applied to get an increased AP [due to his higher pre-service earnings - which she will have to have proved] - it appears she was ineligible [possibly due to lack of proof or because the Standard Pension was higher at that time]

= The stamped DEAD 1931 - this is the date the claim became dead [typically because the widow had remarried or died - rarer for a widow to have given up a pension or had it removed - and the surviving children had typically reached 16.  Unfortunately we can't see the details here though it does look as though the youngest child did probably reach 16 in 1931]

I hope of interest.

:-) M

Edit: If you haven't already picked up on this - There appears to be a 'burnt' Service Record for him on Ancestry, and likely on Find my Past, - eldest child is discussed.

Thank you so much! Thanks for the information, its so interesting reading about it all

Thank you so much everyone!! Its so interesting to read it all and that other people seem to be interested

[Lynn Brislen]

Hi all 

 

Thank you all so much for the information on Cpl Thomas Brislen. We have only just made this discovery tracing the family tree, it;s a shame the medals have gone outside the Brislen family ., my father in law Thomas was the oldest Grandson of Cpl Thomas Brislen. The family are going to plan a trip to visit his grave and pay our respects . 

[Matlock1418]

10 minutes ago, Lynn Brislen said:

The family are going to plan a trip to visit his grave and pay our respects . 

Fair play/good idea! :-)

Just out of interest I looked at Find a Grave and found him https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55918187/thomas-james-brislen

I have no idea who the posters are on FAG [or where they got the ancillary images from] but the photos may be of interest.

:-) M

[Lynn Brislen]

4 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Fair play/good idea! :-)

Just out of interest I looked at Find a Grave and found him https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55918187/thomas-james-brislen

I have no idea who the posters are on FAG [or where they got the ancillary images from] but the photos may be of interest.

:-) M

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this ,   wish we had known about Cpl Thomas Brislen  earlier as a subject in school it was one the kids enjoyed (if that;s the right word to use) learning about without realising their great great grandfather was part of the history lesson 

[Michelle Young]

Lapugnoy is a lovely peaceful place, bit of a favourite of mine, 

[Lynn Brislen]

Evening 

I’m after advice / help if anyone could help me in anyway . I was wondering does anyone have ideas how I could try and track down Thomas Brislen's medals to try and get them back in the family . I have been given a list of his medals . 
 

also a does anyone have a link for the sale of the medals on eBay in 2012 .. I’m curious to see the seller details 

many thanks in advance 

[Matlock1418]

13 minutes ago, Lynn Brislen said:

was wondering does anyone have ideas how I could try and track down Thomas Brislen's medals to try and get them back in the family

You could try the British Medals Forum https://britishmedalforum.com - they have a 'Seeking Family Medals' sub-forum specifically for that purpose.

:-) M

[Lynn Brislen]

On 08/11/2021 at 22:00, Matlock1418 said:

Fair play/good idea! :-)

Just out of interest I looked at Find a Grave and found him https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55918187/thomas-james-brislen

I have no idea who the posters are on FAG [or where they got the ancillary images from] but the photos may be of interest.

:-) M

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this ,   wish we had known about Cpl Thomas Brislen  earlier as a subject in school it was one the kids enjoyed (if that;s the right word to use) learning about without realising their great great grandfather was part of the history lesson 

[Lynn Brislen]

thank you so much i will take a look now 

[LouiseG]

Hi All,

Thomas Brislen was my Nan’s Grandfather. My Nan was Maureen Kirkwood (was Brislen) daughter of James Brislen and Mary Brislen. James Brislen was the son of Thomas Brislen. 

Great hearing all the stories. 
 

I’ve also added a photograph of Thomas Brislen writing a letter home to my Nan’s grandmother and her children (one of the children being James Brislen).

Thanks,

Louise

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, LouiseG said:

Thomas Brislen was my Nan’s Grandfather. My Nan was Maureen Kirkwood (was Brislen) daughter of James Brislen and Mary Brislen. James Brislen was the son of Thomas Brislen. 

Great hearing all the stories. 
 

I’ve also added a photograph of Thomas Brislen writing a letter home to my Nan’s grandmother and her children (one of the children being James Brislen).

Louise,

Welcome to GWF.

Great to have a further member and your photo.

Hope you and all make further discoveries here.

M

P.S. I'm not related in any way - so far as I know!  Just been happy to help above.