Toontraveller Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 KizmeRD, thank you for the update and suggestion regarding the awarding of the medals I was under the impression the medals were awarded for action taken in the battle rather than for political purposes and moral prior to the battle? The citations which I have posted earlier in the post specifically say they were for action taken in the middle of the battle it and casualties were taken by the Royal Navy Armoured Car Division. Think I will I see if I can research the other crew members who were also awarded the same medal for the same action. CPO E.F. Hedge 9906 and CPO H.C. Venning 10168 to add some background to the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 Although many foreign awards were given in appreciation of ‘services rendered’, as can be seen from the link provided by h2, the citations for Hedge, Evans & Venning do indeed reflect a specific act of valour on the battlefield. Good luck with researching additional details. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 3 hours ago, Toontraveller said: CPO H.C. Venning 10168 Be aware, CPO VENING is incorrectly described as NENING in the ADM 188 records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toontraveller Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 KizmeRD, thank you, I really appreciate the information you have provided. horatio2 , all noted thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 (edited) Perhaps a clue to where these men were when they earned the award can be found in the medal citation itself - which refers to the officer in charge of the machine gun detachment being injured and the crew being killed (by a shell explosion). The only multiple British deaths I’ve come across that day relate to the fighting at Bzhezany (marred by indiscipline and even mutiny on the part of some Russian units).‘The key to this position lay in the triangle formed by the confluence of the Zlota and the Tseniow. This triangle was known as the Flat-Iron (Utiug). Here many thousands of Russians fell, and in helping them with Maxims, Hotchkiss, and armored cars, five British soldiers were killed. The plan of attack consisted in a flanking movement over the western slope of the ridge, so as to turn the woods. Unfortunately, the right flank advanced too rapidly and was caught in a cross-fire from the heights’ (Russia’a Agony - Robert Wilton, Times Correspondent) MB Postscript: On the first day of the offensive at Bzhezany they had gone into action, in cars and in trenches. Five had been killed. They lay buried near Kzhywe (southeast of Bzhezany) in ground that was soon, alas! to fall into enemy hands. Over the grave where they rested together a plain wooden cross had been planted with the following inscription: “Here lie Five Englishmen C.P.O. J. MacFarlane C.P.O. E. Viane C.P.O. W. J. Locke P.O. W. G. Pearson P.O. W. L. Mitchell They Died Fighting for Freedom in a Foreign Land. Fear God and Fear Nought.” Edited 18 February , 2021 by KizmeRD Postscript added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toontraveller Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 KizmeRD, good evening. Thank you for the new information. I did a quick check yesterday in CWGC records but only found one British Casualty on a later date, my intention was to look a lot more closely at the information gathered and redo the searches. I will have a bit more time tomorrow to delve deeper and research the fallen and catch up on some reports. Thank you for the names of the fallen which will really pinpoint the area I need to search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 As I said in a previous posting, you have to be very careful when researching this period in Russian history and pay particular attention to whether the date being shown is Gregorian or Julian calendar. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartensabien Posted 8 April , 2021 Share Posted 8 April , 2021 (edited) very interesting post. I just started researching Edgar Viane, one of the 5 men killed on 1july1917 and remembered in Poznan (Poland) He was originally from Ghent, Belgium but moved with his parrent to the UK. From there Edgar moved to Canada where he volonteered in the CEF (24th Batn). Back i the UK he was trasfered to the RNAS. I did not fid the book 'The Tzar's British squadron' on the Belgian (2nd hand) market. I would be very happy with a copy of the pages about the action i which the 5 men were killed. Can someone help me on this ? Best regards, Bart Edited 8 April , 2021 by bartensabien typing errors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 4 February , 2022 Share Posted 4 February , 2022 Reference: ADM 188/576/8065 Description: Name Viane, Edgar Official Number: F8065 Place of Birth: Gwent,[sic] Belgium Date of Birth: 19 March 1896 Date: [1915] Held by: The National Archives, Kew Former reference in its original department: Vol No.F8-1 As at the time of posting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 4 February , 2022 Share Posted 4 February , 2022 CPO Edgar VIANE was awarded the Russian St George Cross "For bravery under fire: with 3-pdr gun covered retreat. Roumania, Jamuary 1917." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 4 February , 2022 Share Posted 4 February , 2022 He also was awarded the Medal 4th Cl under File: ADM 116/1717 Record of service: Ratings with Russian armoured cars 1916-24, with the following See also file ADM 171/174. Killed by a shell during a battle on 19th Jan when with great self-sacrifice he executed his duties in the trenches near Brzezany with a ……… machine gun detachment whilst under extremely heavy artillery fire and by his extensive fire greatly assisted the Russian infantry. K.i.A. 1.1.17, buried at Letyatin, Galicia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Walker Posted 20 February Share Posted 20 February Hi I have just found this GWF topic. I have been collecting the RNAS Armoured Car postal material for some 40 years, with an emphasis on Locker Lampson's Division which went to Russia. My father went with him as a PO Harry Walker. motor mechanic. He was in the small force of about 50 men left as an overwintering force in 1917 and was lucky to escape after Russia capitulated to Germany. I did not collect material when they became the Dunsterforce - army then. I have some 100 items of letters to and from the men, envelopes censored in Russia and England and many other documents. My hobby is postal history of the Royal Navy in WWI with the armoured cars as a special study. I have still to go through the whole post in the Forum, but I noticed 'Andrew' mentioned petty officer Walker in his post back on 17 April 2012, almost certainly my father. He is also mentioned in Brenda Stibbon's book 'The Baker Brothers' (2018), three brothers from Cromer who served with the ACD and survived. What is fascinating for me is the link given in a post to the Kew archive ADM 116/1717 which says this has a page for each sailor in the ACD to Russia. As I have many letters with names, there's a visit to Kew to be made, although inconveniently I live 300 miles away. I hope this forum item is still live as I'd be happy to share more information. Surprisingly a Russian correspondent, an academic who researches and lectures in Russian military history had never heard of the ACD campaign, nor had his colleagues at the university - they're suggesting I write a book, but I'm a postal historian (philatelist), not a military man. Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 20 February Admin Share Posted 20 February 1 hour ago, Tony Walker said: What is fascinating for me is the link given in a post to the Kew archive ADM 116/1717 which says this has a page for each sailor in the ACD to Russia. As I have many letters with names, there's a visit to Kew to be made, although inconveniently I live 300 miles away. Welcome to the GWF Yes, this topic is still live. You could get a researcher to copy the file for you which is usually much less expensive There are a few recommendations on here e.g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Walker Posted 20 February Share Posted 20 February @rnascars This is an old topic, I've just seen it, and I think I can help. You mention Petty Officer Walker (Harry) in your post below. He was my father and travelled from Liverpool with the armoured cars on 25 June 1917 having been recruited by Locker Lampson on 29 January 1917. They arrived at Archangel on 11 July 1917 when my father sent a telegram home with that information. I thought they had travelled on the SS Umona which had been used by the Division previously, but I had not verified this, so it could well have been the SS Dundrennan as you say. Interestingly my father took some 90 photographs during his voyage from Liverpool and arrival at Kursk, very similar in style to the one you illustrated. Tony · Hi All, I have just joined the forum and this is my first posting, I just hope all goes well and its in the right section? I am trying to find any information as to when the S.S. Dundrennan first set sail from Liverpool with a cargo of armoured cars bound for Russia? What is of interest is that I have an album with over 90 of photographs, none of which are captioned, only a duplicated folio size sheet with captions and numerals which refer to the photographs on the album pages. I am trying to establish the date when these photographs were likely taken? There are no dates mentioned on the folio sheet, only references to Lt. Commander Soames, Lt. Hedge, Major Charles including petty officers: White, Thirgood, Walker, Francis, Sewell, Chilvers & Sandifer. Any help to try and establish the date of these photographs would be most appreciated Regards Andrew P.S. I have enclose a photographs from this album, with the appropriate caption: Arrival in BROVARIE of armour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 20 February Admin Share Posted 20 February @Tony Walker I’ve moved your post back here and tagged @rnascars You can use the GWF personal message system to contact any member of the forum; simply click on their name and open the Message dialog box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Walker Posted 21 February Share Posted 21 February Thanks kenf48. I'm on a learning curve in respect of using the Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 21 February Admin Share Posted 21 February 4 hours ago, Tony Walker said: Thanks kenf48. I'm on a learning curve in respect of using the Forum We noticed keep going it soon becomes addictive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 22 February Share Posted 22 February On 21/02/2024 at 15:51, kenf48 said: keep going it soon becomes addictive 16 years ago since I joined I can vouch for that. Welcome aboard, Tony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now