N.S.Regt. Posted 1 August , 2004 Share Posted 1 August , 2004 Chip Here is the shoulder straps I promised to scan the first is artillery second is a mix and the other four are infantry. If you see anything of intrest or wish to add some information on them feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 1 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2004 second lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 1 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2004 third lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 1 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2004 forth lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 1 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2004 fifth lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 1 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2004 6th lot That is the bulk of them the last two are some of the rather mothed ones. I like the Hessian strap in the 5th lot myself the 117th my family came from the area about 250 years ago. Best Regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 1 August , 2004 Share Posted 1 August , 2004 Good Lord, this is the first time I see my Granddads Regiment shoulder straps. They are the 49ers, peace garrison Gnesen, Province Posen, Prussia ( today Poland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 1 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2004 Egbert I have not dug these out of a long time. All the straps were gathered in the province can not recall where I got the 49th. did your Grandfathers Regt. have contact with Canadian troops I did pick up most of the straps from a ww1 Vet lot. also got a M.G. bayonette knot, M17 Helmet and a large assortment of buttons 60 or 70. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 1 August , 2004 Share Posted 1 August , 2004 Not aware of Canadians; just know of Brit regulars confirm 1st Chechire 1914, 1st DCLI and Aussis 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 1 August , 2004 Share Posted 1 August , 2004 N.S.Regt., Thanks for going to the trouble of scanning your straps. You have a very nice cross section there. All of the examples are post 1915, either overcoat or model 1915s. You have a Garde foot artillery, a pioneer, two stretcher bearers, a Bavarian field artillery, 11.Grenadier Regiment, 34.Fusilier Regiment, 117.Infantry Leib Regiment. I need some additional information on two of the pieces. The one with the Reichs insignia on it is stumping me. The strap is a model 1915 private purchase piece. You can tell that by the tongue, which was not used on issue 1915 pattern straps. Tongues were occasionally added to issue model 1915 straps, but it was an after manufacture add-on and they are easily spotted as such. The tongue on this one is sewn right into the base of the strap. If this strap shows no evidence of ever having a number on it, I would say it is a Garde infantry piece (more than one possibility for yellow piping) and that the insignia was just stuck on by a vet. There were straps with insignia of a similar nature on them, but they were state coats of arms (Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon, etc.) for officials (Beamten). This is a Reichs eagle that I have not seen on a shoulder strap before. Perhaps someone else will have some thoughts about it. The other strap is the one with the number 201 on it. Is the piping blue or green? I cannot tell from the picture. I have some very nice wartime trade pieces and if you have any interest in swopping for other straps or anything else, let me know and I will contact you directly. I have attached two pictures of similar or same straps that I have. Thanks again, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 1 August , 2004 Share Posted 1 August , 2004 N.S.Regt., And here is the second. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 1 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2004 Chip The odd strap with the Eagle is army adminstrative It came from a Grandson of a ww1 Vet. The yellow piping was used to identify the corps to which the man was a part of. Since there is no tunic there is a number of possibilities a number of corps used yellow piping. The other strap the 201st has green piping I always thought was a wartime Jager Regt. was my guess wrong? I have included a scan of the Back side of the strap as you can see the device as been on there forever. I have seen dress versions of the straps but they do not interest me as I only collect combat issue peices. I started to collect German bayonettes but was overwelmed by the shear number of them so stopped after about 20. There are hundreds of examples of the 98 alone. best regards N.S.Regt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 NS.Regt., Thanks for the picture of the reverse of your strap. That backing material is definitely custom purchase quality. I have several examples with this backing. This coupled with the other attributes that I mentioned confirm that it is a private purchase piece. Unfortunately, tailor made items did not always conform to the regulations. This is especially true during the transition period of 1915 when the old pattern tunics were being replaced with the Feldbluse. I agree that this insignia has been on the strap for a long time, but I doubt that it is original to it. Here's why I say that. First, this insignia was never worn on shoulder straps. It was a cap insignia. I am attaching a picture of it from Das Deutsche Heer. There was a similar insignia on a shield (also shown) that Reichs-Beamten wore on straps. My second point is that there was never a pattern strap of this type worn by military officials. The lowest ranks wore solid color straps, but nothing gray with piping that I know of. As I mentioned at the beginning, it could be a wartime hybrid strap that just used the color of the full color strap as a piping color. I have seen that done, but it is very unusual. Another problem is that officials did not wear army corps colors. Officials were grouped by branch colors. White was the paymaster corps, yellow the Proviantamt (provisions), light blue the military justice branch, red for Bekleidungsamten (clothing depots) etc.. I have an green piped example with the same number 201. It is not a Jäger unit, as they were not numbered that high. Since most mountain units wore green piping on their uniforms and the numbers match a unit that existed, I have identified mine as the 201st Gebirgs-Maschinengewehr-Abteilung. You will also notice that the base material of the strap is not Graugrün, the color of a Jäger uniform, but rather Feldgrau, like a regular infantry uniform. They are easier to differentiate if you have the two examples side by side. I have a small lot of items from a man that served in the Prussian 201.Mountain Machine Gun Detachment. The lot includes his machine gun sharpshooter's badge (he was in the 33.MGSSA before he was assigned to the 201st), his Soldbuch, dogtag, diary, a unit bar for the "GBS.MASCH.GEW.ABT.201", which was made to put on one of his veteran's medals. I hope this helps, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 N.S.Regt., Here on the far left is the Reichsbeamten shoulder strap insignia. As you can see, it is on a shield and is gold in color. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 N.S.Regt., Finally, here is my example from the Preußische Gebirgs-Maschinen-Gewehr-Abteilung No.201. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 Egbert, I also have a model 1915 enlisted man's shoulder strap from the 49th I.R. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 2 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2004 Chip I can agree with you on a private purchase strap to the Guards. But I baised my original opinion on a button that I bought with the lot and I had IDed that as officials. I have included a scan of the button and three others I feel I have IDed but want a second opinion. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 Hurry up Chip, show me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 Egbert, How's that for fast! Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 Wow!!!! Now tell me: what exactly is the difference between the one from N.S. and yours. No doubt: both are adorable!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 N.S.Regt., What is the relative size of these buttons? In your picture they are all the same size. The size is important to the identification. Normally, the official's button has the same design as the insignia on the shoulder strap, that is, a crown over a shield with the Wappen on the shield. My identifications would be, from top left to right, private purchase Reichs button (possibly for officials), family crest button, non-military (possibly livery), then bottom left, Saxon NCO's collar rank button (wartime) and a Bavarian NCO's collar rank button (pre-March 1916 when they changed to another design). Regards, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 Egbert, I don't understand your question. There is no difference between the two straps. They are both the same pattern, ostensibly from the same unit (though there are other infantry units with the number 49 that could have worn this strap). Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 Hey guys, Maybe one of the both belonged to this proud 49er:"Es lebe hoch das Regiment, das sich das 49te nennt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 then bottom left, Saxon NCO's collar rank button (wartime) and a Bavarian NCO's collar rank button (pre-March 1916 Chip, could the "Bavarian" be a Hessian buttom?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 2 August , 2004 Share Posted 2 August , 2004 Egbert, "Das sich, mit stoltz, das 49te nennt"! No, Hessians had a different design. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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