Can someone I.D. this Uniform Please

[FROGSMILE]

Oh, this is exciting news for me, thank you! I know that he died in January 1924, from myocardial degeneration, from the effects of being gassed in the late war, this is on his DC & I know he was in France, from his postcard, but I know very little else. He was born in 1879, so the age fitted with the postcard & WW1 records, but it is heartwarming to read his description & identity marks from knowing nothing about him, altho I have traced his family back to 1573, as they were one of the oldest families in Liverpool. Couldl there be more records at the National Archives at Kew on his militia service records ? A friend looked for his WW1 records but sadly, none have survived.

Incidentally, after I posted these posts on my grandfather, I then thought it better to start a new thread away from the uniform subject, but I don't know where that new thread has gone as I 'thought' I had put it on the document section & now can't find it... don't come on this website much so still not used to it. So there's another thread floating about with same questions.

Thanks you

R11

Although his Regular service (wartime) records have not survived it is quite possible that documents relating to his Militia service have, although these are likely to be little more than muster rolls and you have done well to already have his Militia attestation document.

[Researcher11]

Your other thread is on 'interpreting service records and medal index cards.john

Thanks, forget my head if it wasn't screwed on lol! I've left a message on that thread too.

R11

[Researcher11]

Although his Regular service (wartime) records have not survived it is quite possible that documents relating to his Militia service have, although these are likely to be little more than muster rolls and you have done well to already have his Militia attestation document.

What is a "Muster Roll" ? Does that not give much more info ? I would love to find a photo of him, perhaps if any photos of his battalion have survived I could i.d him now that I have his description & he probably looks like my mum or one of her siblings.. I know it's a long shot.

Have any photos of soldiers of that reg survived ?

R11

[Graham Stewart]

Frogsmile - you forgot that by 1908 the Militia ceased to exist and was replaced by 'Special Reserve'. I forget what the terms of service were for the Militia, but 4yrs seems to ring a bell. As he "Attested" in 1896 this would of course mean by 1900, William H, should have been discharged at the age of 22yrs - however as the Boer War was just starting most of the Militia was embodied, some units taking up Garrison duties overseas, allowing regular units to go to South Africa.

What's puzzling me as to why no details have been entered into his record of service sheet? Surely a man who had 'attested' would have attended a training course, usually held at the Regular Depot and recorded in his documents. If he was embodied in 1900 then dates of embodied service would also have been included, but there isn't. As the years passed a record of annual training would also have been added, but these sheets show nothing at all, which is most puzzling.

By the time war broke out William H. was 36yrs of age. Now I'm not familiar with the Kings numbering sequence, but had he either continued his service(doubtful) or taken his Discharge(possible) after 4yrs and was recalled or re-enlisted into the now Special Reserve, then his number should have been prefixed with '3/'. Since his MIC doesn't show this then I think it's 'regular' number and he's purely a wartime enlistment.

Lovely to see these Militia enlistment Forms and I'll do some numbering checks, if Promenade hasn't already seen this. He contructed the Kings Regiment Database.

[Graham Stewart]

Further to my last - I think I now know whats going on here. I don't think William H ever served in the Militia - I think he "Attested"(8/7/1896), but changed his mind and then enlisted as a "Regular" into the Kings Regt on the 25th September 1896, which I conclude from the red handwriting - these Militia Documents would then have become unused.

If he has joined as a regular into the Kings he would have automatically been renumbered, again a four figure number. His terms of service in 1896 would have been "7 & 5" - seven years with the Colours and five years with the Reserve. If this is correct then he would have been Discarged to Reserve and civilian life in 1903, at the end of the Boer War. If this is the case then his complete Discharge would have been 1908, with no further obligations.

At the outbreak of the War he was probably impelled to re-enlist, this would account for him being re-numbered with a five figure regular number, his old regular number now dufuct.

What you need to look at is the "Muster Rolls" for the Regular Kings battalions as my instincts and these documents are telling me he was a pre-war regular.

[FROGSMILE]

Hello Graham, yes that makes sense. I had not forgotten about the end of militia and creation of special reserve, but did not mention it as I should have. It does seem a very interesting case.

[Researcher11]

Gosh, I thought my questions had been answered, it's a good job I come back to this thread! Thank you so much for this additional information, I shall look into these Muster Rolls & let you all know if I find anything.

Thank you all again

Reseacher11

[FROGSMILE]

Gosh, I thought my questions had been answered, it's a good job I come back to this thread! Thank you so much for this additional information, I shall look into these Muster Rolls & let you all know if I find anything.

Thank you all again

Reseacher11

What Graham has said is probably correct and you will have seen from the thread how complicated the detective work can be. I recommend that you read the thread again carefully and perhaps take some notes. You will need to try and access the Muster Rolls for both the 1st and 2nd Battalions of the King's Regiment (he could have been in either, or both) in the period 1896-1903.

[Researcher11]

What Graham has said is probably correct and you will have seen from the thread how complicated the detective work can be. I recommend that you read the thread again carefully and perhaps take some notes. You will need to try and access the Muster Rolls for both the 1st and 2nd Battalions of the King's Regiment (he could have been in either, or both) in the period 1896-1903.

I've found all the comments & advice given so interesting - to someone who was born in mid 1950s, this guiding hand is invaluable & I have printed off the entire thread.

Are these Muster Rolls only accessible at the National Archives, nothing online ?

Researcher 11

[Graham Stewart]

I've found all the comments & advice given so interesting - to someone who was born in mid 1950s, this guiding hand is invaluable & I have printed off the entire thread.

Are these Muster Rolls only accessible at the National Archives, nothing online ?

Researcher 11

To be honest the Kings isn't my field and the one bloke who could have told you if they still existed and where, now lives in America I believe. This was Joe Devereux, who actually created a WWI database for the Kings Regt Museum. He was a member here, but sending him a PM doesn't work as his box if full. Try the Museum directly and see if they can help - although they rarely can.

[Researcher11]

To be honest the Kings isn't my field and the one bloke who could have told you if they still existed and where, now lives in America I believe. This was Joe Devereux, who actually created a WWI database for the Kings Regt Museum. He was a member here, but sending him a PM doesn't work as his box if full. Try the Museum directly and see if they can help - although they rarely can.

Thanks, I'll give the Museum a try & let you know how I get on. I't so tantalising when no photo exists of someone so close as a grandfather, just to know the colour of his hair & eyes is fascinating! Now I know who was responsible for all the 'ginger people' within our tiny family, who are all but a few extinct now!

Cheers...

Researcher11