WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The ' Foster ' machine gun mount fitted with a Lewis Gun.

 

LF

 

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[johnboy]

A great shot of the double Lewis mount and the side mount.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1 minute ago, johnboy said:

A great shot of the double Lewis mount and the side mount.

 

johnboy,

 

Agree, and here is a photograph of the fixed twin Vickers machine guns fitted to a Sopwith Camel, and it was the double ' humps ' from those twin Vickers machine guns which gave the Sopwith ' Camel ' it's name.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[johnboy]

Are they fired by the pull toggles in the cockpit?

[MikeMeech]

33 minutes ago, johnboy said:

Are they fired by the pull toggles in the cockpit?

Hi

Guns are generally fired by twin gun buttons at the bottom of the hand grip of the joystick. Earlier in the war a lever on the stick to fire the gun can be seen or a small 'lever' coming out of the back of the gun could be used.  The large 'levers' in the photo of the Camel cockpit are the 'loading handles'.

 

Just to show the Spad VII canvas belt system; the photo below shows the fully loaded belt on a drum to the left (in front of the cockpit) and the empty belt drum on the right, tension was maintained by rubber bungee cord on a conical retainer on the drum's inner face (not visible in photo).

 

Mike

[johnboy]

What are loading handles?

[MikeMeech]

41 minutes ago, johnboy said:

What are loading handles?

Hi

I will give you the information as contained in 'Vickers Guns', Windsock Mini Datafile 6 by Harry Woodman, page 3:

"Another problem arose with what is often called the cocking handle but more correctly the 'crank handle'.  On the ground this presented no difficulty, when it was pulled back several actions occurred which cocked the gun by drawing back the barrel recoil plates and lock to the rear and also activating the mechanism which drew the belt in.  Pilots often found the small handle difficult to get hold of with thick gloves and the position was also sometimes awkward due to windscreens, etc.

   The answer lay in the development of a 'loading handle', a large, easily grasped lever which when pulled back carried out the actions described above.  There were some early ones but the best were the 'Hyland' series which appeared in mid 1917."

 

The 'loading handles' are the two handles seen in the Camel cockpit photo that appeared in a previous post, I believe they are of a 'Hyland' type.

 

Mike

[johnboy]

So they were for firing the gun? I am confused because when  I first asked. you said the guns were fired from the stick and that what I was referring to were loading handles as if  they had nothing to do with the gun. Maybe I should have used another description.

[MikeMeech]

8 minutes ago, johnboy said:

So they were for firing the gun? I am confused because when  I first asked. you said the guns were fired from the stick and that what I was referring to were loading handles as if  they had nothing to do with the gun. Maybe I should have used another description.

Hi

'Triggers' , ie. on the joy stick 'fire' the gun. 'Loading handles' load the weapon with a round.  Like a bolt action rifle, you pull the bolt backwards, then forward to push the round in the chamber, the 'loading handle' does the same.  On the rifle you then pull the trigger to fire, as with the twin 'buttons' (triggers) at the bottom of the joystick grip on Camel which fire the guns.

 

Mike

[johnboy]

In the picture post #5203 are the triggers shown?

[MikeMeech]

15 minutes ago, johnboy said:

In the picture post #5203 are the triggers shown?

Hi

They can just be seen at the bottom of the triangular grip of the joystick, another image below showing the 'triggers' at the bottom of the triangular grip on another Camel.

The 'Loading Handles' can also be seen attached to the rear right side of each gun (which are padded to limit injury).

Mike

 

[johnboy]

Got it! 

But.. did the loading handles have to be operated by the gunner each time a shot was fired? Or were they there to overcome jams or just used to load a new belt? As you can see, I know very little about guns.

[MikeMeech]

2 hours ago, johnboy said:

Got it! 

But.. did the loading handles have to be operated by the gunner each time a shot was fired? Or were they there to overcome jams or just used to load a new belt? As you can see, I know very little about guns.

Hi

No, just for loading the belt the gun mechanism then took over to re-load the chamber each time, unless the gun jammed at all.  The pilot (in the forward firing Vickers case) would have to clear the jam, they would have trained to overcome the various 'stoppages' in a series of 'drills', sometimes using a wooden mallet kept in the cockpit for some problems it appears.  Various causes of jams including the web belt problems I mentioned in a previous post, ammunition itself could be a problem, many pilots and observers would check the ammo themselves when loading belts or drums.  Initially the ammo just came from the standard production runs in the munitions factories, but by 1917 .303" was carefully selected from batches that complied with tighter manufacturing tolerances that gave reliable ignition for synchronised guns, this was known as 'Green Label' (or Green Cross).  This method proved successful so during 1918 special production lines were set up to produce high quality ammunition for aircraft use.  This was known as 'Red Label' (also known as 'Special for RAF, Red Label', then 'Special for RAF' and finally 'Special').

 

Mike

[johnboy]

Thanks for the explanation

[johnboy]

Came across [no pun intended] this unusual but poignant use of a propeller

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

15 hours ago, johnboy said:

Came across [no pun intended] this unusual but poignant use of a propeller

 

johnboy,

 

Those grave crosses made from aircraft propellers, were used both by the British and the Germans.

 

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This nicely detailed front view of an RFC Crossley 20/25 Tender appears to show it has a lot of bullet hole damage, particularly apparent to it's windscreen.

Also, one of it's double front tyres has been removed, and can be seen on the ground behind the Crossley.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[johnboy]

I don't think I have seen double wheels on the front axle before, Must have pulled their arms out making a sharp turn

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1 hour ago, johnboy said:

I don't think I have seen double wheels on the front axle before, Must have pulled their arms out making a sharp turn

 

johnboy,

 

As you correctly suggest, a vehicle having double sets of front wheels was not common, and particularly for a Crossley 20/25 Tender, it was exceedingly rare. However, not unique, as I did find one other rare example of a WW1 Crossley 20/25 Tender fitted with double sets of front wheels.

The attached photograph shows a Crossley 20/25 Tender fitted with double sets of front wheels towing a captured German aircraft near the Palestinian town of Beersheba, located on the edge of the Negev Desert some 46+ miles S.W. of Jerusalem.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[MikeMeech]

1 hour ago, johnboy said:

I don't think I have seen double wheels on the front axle before, Must have pulled their arms out making a sharp turn

Hi

Twin wheels on the axle was very common on the Crossley in Arabia for the rough terrain, there are photos of TEL going around in them.

 

Mike

[Lancashire Fusilier]

39 minutes ago, MikeMeech said:

Twin wheels on the axle was very common on the Crossley in Arabia for the rough terrain, there are photos of TEL going around in them.

 

Mike,

 

I think the best way to describe double sets of wheels being fitted to the Crossley 20/25 Tender, is that on the Western Front, they would have been rare, and in the Middle East not as rare, however, probably not in common use.

I have just looked at probably 100 photographs of Crossley 20/25 Tenders in my files, and found only 3 showing double sets of front wheels, two of which I just posted.

The 3rd attached photograph, shows a Crossley 20/25 Tender fitted with double sets of front wheels, being specifically used for desert reconnaissance patrols in the Middle East during WW1. I dare say other such photographs exist, and should I find others, I shall post them. The other photographs taken of Crossley 20/25 Tenders being used in the Middle East and Africa, show single sets of front wheels.

Clearly, the fitting of these double-wheels to the Crossley 20/25 Tender was related more to the desert terrain found in the Middle East.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A Crossley 20/25 Tender parked in a African village, it is a shame that it not possible to read the regimental insignia on the Serjeant's uniform jacket, which would have provided us with some useful additional information.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Post moved

 

[trajan]

On 6/28/2016 at 17:09, Lancashire Fusilier said:

This nicely detailed front view of an RFC Crossley 20/25 Tender appears to show it has a lot of bullet hole damage, particularly apparent to it's windscreen.

Also, one of it's double front tyres has been removed, and can be seen on the ground behind the Crossley.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

Explanation needed for a non-specialist please - are those studs? As in winter tyres?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

54 minutes ago, trajan said:

Explanation needed for a non-specialist please - are those studs? As in winter tyres?

 

At that time, tyre treads were still being developed and it was not uncommon for tyres to be without a tread and completely bald, other tyres, as are shown in that particular photograph were fitted with studs to both protect the tyres surface against wear and also give some added traction.

Towards the end of WW1, we see significant improvements in the development of fully treaded tyres.

One form of very pronounced tyre tread pattern were the ' Combat Tyres ' fitted to Armoured Cars, which consisted of many small suction pads attached to the tyres surface, again to assist both with traction and also protect the surface of the tyres.

 

The attached photograph shows an Austin Armoured Car ( First Series ) in service with the Russians, fitted with ' Combat Tyres '.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.