Max Poilu Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 I have a basic understanding of Brodies' but others on this forum have forgotten far more than I will ever know! Joe, Picked up this Brodie and to me it looks superbly original and untouched. Can you help with the marking 'M.V' - seperated by a dot and underlined, looks like there may be a batch number underneath but it is very faint. Nice Brodie ink stamp and owners initials 'G E D' under the oilcloth. The rivets and wear pattern all look good. But I would welcome your comments as I am paranoid about these things. The rivets are loose and show wear where they have rubbed. The paint on the lugs etc all seems to match. Four pics to follow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 23 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Picture 2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 23 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Picture 3: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 23 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Opps: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 23 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2004 And the marking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 looks to me that the rivets are redone, that should explain the paint chips who are gone + lose fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Just a loud thought: someone made an US helmet an Brit helmet by changing the rivets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Completely off the top of my head, but the markings read HV, and I believe that is one of the British makers, so not an altered American helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Completely off the top of my head, but the markings read HV, and I believe that is one of the British makers, so not an altered American helmet. the first helmets in the USA were all British! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 Giles HV tells us that the helmet shell was manufactured by W Hutton & Sons (Sheffield) from steel supplied by Vickers. The number is a steel batch code. British Brodies were supplied to the Americans - I had a perfectly 'British' Brodie with US 6th Division markings on it - and many American helmets were made from British supplied shells, with US liners. Best wishes, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 23 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2004 someone made an US helmet an Brit helmet by changing the rivets Well, this is always the fear when buying a Brodie but the pattern of wear in general of the helmet and in particular on the strap holding lugs looks absolutely 'right' to me. Difficult to show in enough detail on the pics, I have had a magnifiying glass to really look closely. Although the rivets are loose, the way the inner rivet prong has worn the lugs is just right (see pic 2) and similarily the way the lug has worn the paint under the lug on the inner rim is conversant with lots of wear. The paint on the lugs and very faint remains on the rivet prongs matches. In addition the strap rivets look identical to the lug rivets. Finally the pattern of rust within the rivet itself looks old not aged artificially. Getting really anal here... Of course, Brodies were salvaged and frequently repaired so rivets were replaced form time to time. I have no reason to believe the helmet is suspect, the source is a reputable one but welcome the views of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 23 July , 2004 Share Posted 23 July , 2004 HV tells us that the helmet shell was manufactured by W Hutton & Sons (Sheffield) from steel supplied by Vickers. The number is a steel batch code. Any idea what this Brodie stamping means ? > ZA.189 regards - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 Dear Tom While I can't tell you what ZA actually stands for, I can say that it is almost certainly an American-made shell, and that it is definitely not British. (I assume that's what you didn't want to hear? Sorry.) Rgds, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 I assume that's what you didn't want to hear? Au contraire ! - a Doughboy helmet then - will have to dig it out of the garage and give it a polish ..................................... the new (to me) display cabinet arrives today - couldnt turn it down as a straight swap for a WW1 Adrian (!) but at 7x3x2 ft its going to take some filling thanks, - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzac16 Posted 24 July , 2004 Share Posted 24 July , 2004 someone made an US helmet an Brit helmet by changing the rivets They sould hang them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 25 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 July , 2004 Just been reminded I put 'M.V' in my first post, I have no idea why - it is clearly 'H.V'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Alexander Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 Could someone clarify for me. Tin Lids by Roger Lucy 1997, indicates the following: Collectors should note that the US-made version of the Mk.I, the M-1917 can appear in Canadian contexts. US helmets can be distinguished from British made helmets by their serial number which was a 2 or 3 letter code (with or without numbers) beginning with U,X,Y or Z. Where the original fittings exist the US chin strap lug is heavier and held by a double ended machine rivet, British-made helmets use a split-tailed rivet. Is this consistent with the helmet being discussed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 Tin Lids is perfectly correct - it should be noted though that the helmet that was originally being discussed (the pictures at the top) was a British made Brodie, and a question was later posted about an American made Brodie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzac16 Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 now i wanna know if mine is allso an British brodie i think it is But i am not 100% sure here is helmet no1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzac16 Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 And helmet No2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzac16 Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 and here the are booth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 26 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2004 No, definitely cheap Chinese copies... Seriously, they look good. Interesting point on that US Doughboy site (see other current Brodie thread) about the 'lapped-over' rim join on British models as opposed to a butt join for the American helmets. Had not heard that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzac16 Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 yes saw that thread and i also din't hear about that part about the rim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 Anzac16, Both helmets are British. Both appear to be IAW manufacturing practice after April 1917. The rubber donut was added after that time. Does the helmet with the liner still intact have the rubber donut under the wool felt, it appears it might? If it does not than it will indicate pre April 1917 manufacture. The Helmet with the exposed donut has long since lost its wool felt. The white fabric is an asbestos liner. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzac16 Posted 26 July , 2004 Share Posted 26 July , 2004 no there is no rubber donut and may thankx for your reply but (maybe a stupid question) mean's IAW manufacturing practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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