tootrock Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 How did the man in the trenches open his tin of Bully Beef? Was there a little key attached, such as is sometimes found today, or did he require a tin-opener? And how were ration biscuits packed? Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 It was common for soldiers to carry commercially made openers, in lieu of those I suppose the bayonet was used. Sorry not familiar with the products themselves, I am sure others will assist you. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 How did the man in the trenches open his tin of Bully Beef? Was there a little key attached, such as is sometimes found today, or did he require a tin-opener? And how were ration biscuits packed? Martin I do not think the original pattern did, but I understand later patterns of clasp knife had a can opener blade. Perhaps a collector or holder of a relevant LoC can confirm this. Ration biscuits were boxed with foil seals to make airtight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 It was common for soldiers to carry commercially made openers, in lieu of those I suppose the bayonet was used..... khaki My guess is that the bayonet was used more often than not The soldier in the Great War was a very practical chap. My grandfather drove a lorry in the ASC; open cab with no weather protection at the front or sides. He swore that the biscuits were so hard that they had to nail them to the back of the cab so that the rain could soften them up before they were able to eat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Someone else will verify when the clasp knife was introduced, but this was one of its primary uses- opening tins with the tin opener blade made for the purpose. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 It seems that during the Boer war, lots of food was shipped to the British troops in tins. When a replacement knife was designed at the turn of the century, it was decided to incorporate a tin opener. This pattern was known as the 6353/1905, an image of which I enclose. "many of the pattern 6353/1905 attributed to WW1 issue have no military acceptance marks. This is because the clasp knife was considered an item of clothing not a weapon and was under a different accounting regime." "Recent research has shown that not only was the pattern 8173/1914 clasp knife, single blade, tin opener with jigged bone handle, an issue knife but there were three variations of this pattern, they were pattern 8171/1914 with stag horn handle, pattern 8172/1914 with checked black horn handle and pattern 8173/1914 with bone handle. " "Late in the war pattern 9401/1917, knives, clasp with tin opener and marline spike with nickle scales, pattern 9402/1917, knives, clasp with tin opener and marline spike with fibre scales, pattern 9403/1917, knives, clasp with tin opener and fibre scales and pattern 9404/1917, 26 April 1917, knives, clasp with tin opener and steel scales, were approved for issue." All info courtesy of Dutchy: http://www.australia....php?f=13&t=134 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Hi FROGSMILE You beat me to it, yes ( 2nd photo) this patern was used in WW1, a new patern came out in 1932, shorter in lengh and with a improved tin opener, in the last year of WW2, a inferior clasp knife was issued, produced from stainless steel, with no grips on the handles. Added I can see now how you beat me to it, I had to scan mine . Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 My guess is that the bayonet was used more often than not The soldier in the Great War was a very practical chap. My grandfather drove a lorry in the ASC; open cab with no weather protection at the front or sides. He swore that the biscuits were so hard that they had to nail them to the back of the cab so that the rain could soften them up before they were able to eat them. I'd be interested to hear of a practical method of opening a bully beef tin with a bayonet. I think you'd very likely ruin or contaminate the contents. Anyone found a You Tube demo? Most accounts I've read say the most useful job for the bayonet was breaking up duckboards for firewood. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 We have had some interesting threads on this in the past. One is here . It seems the key opening tins were common even back then (unless I misunderstood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 I'd be interested to hear of a practical method of opening a bully beef tin with a bayonet. I think you'd very likely ruin or contaminate the contents. Anyone found a You Tube demo? Most accounts I've read say the most useful job for the bayonet was breaking up duckboards for firewood. Regards, MikB Mik, You'd be surprised how useful a bayonet could be when it came to meal-time see http://cas.awm.gov.au/photograph/P05093.025 regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Meat was to be supplied in hermetically sealed key opening tins per ASC Training Part II 1909 (still in effect in the Great War). Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Didn't the Canadian forces have a clasp knife with the same functions, except that it was all metal slab sided and sometimes dated on the grip, I think I remember seeing one dated 1915. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Here's a couple of the corned beef tins I have. The larger, Libby's tin is a Boer war souvenir. It's dated 6-99 internally - & has been opened the hard way, from the top. Clearly opened with an army clasp knife tin opener - the blade of mine fits the cuts perfectly. The Plate Brand tin is dated 8-18,& is the smaller, later 12oz size opened with the key. Joe Sweeney is of course quite correct, that the key wind tins were in use prior to 1909 - however, I have seen Galipolli relic tins which have clearly been of the larger earlier type - no point throwing away good bully when it's only 10 years old! ChrisP And from the top... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 And finally, the date on the Plate Brand tin; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 They don't last forever though. I remember my g/father regretfully chucking out a souvenier can during the years of wwII. The tin has swelled to alarming proportions and was must probably fermenting gracefully underneath its cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 Yes This Fray Bentos tin, still full, has expanded somewhat in girth. I'd hate to be close when it finally goes... However, for our purposes here, it servesto show the key in place, prior to opening. ChrisP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 4 November , 2011 Share Posted 4 November , 2011 And for Khaki, the stainless steel cased, Canadian issued clasp knife, this one, typically, with British made blades.. ChrisP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 Thanks Chris for the Canadian knife photo, that's what I had in mind. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 Interesting that the L,M&L can carried what look like instructions about following the lower edge of the label around, which Tommy clearly chose to ignore - be interesting to know why. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 And for Khaki, the stainless steel cased, Canadian issued clasp knife, this one, typically, with British made blades.. ChrisP. Chris, What was the guy this was issued to using the spike for??? These types were also British issue--minus M&D Canada of course---and only officially authorized/pattern sealed fairly late in the war (26 April 1917, “Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Marline Spike with Nickle Scales”) and the exact same pattern as the Canadian and for thosde who actually find the steel scaled variety--”Pattern 9404/1917, 26 April 1917, introduced “Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Steel Scales”. . I have a Bitish made one used by a gunner in the RFA. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 'evening Joe; How's the world treating you? The purpose of the Marlin spike was for splicing ropes, & long used by the Royal Navy. As you will know it's issue wasn't universal, as it didn't replace the other patterns, & limited to certain troops -I've always assumed that would be for RFA, RE, ASC, etc, who would have the most need for it.. There were an awful lot of patterns for one war..! I've never been able to find a British issued steel scaled knife - have you? - or any one else for that matter? ChrisP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 5 November , 2011 Share Posted 5 November , 2011 TE; I've always greatly envied your little set...! Here's three of mine, all different. The round, & small square one are both souvenirs, dared 1914 & 15. Whilst the small one is a ship's biscuit, I've never seen the likes of the round one before - it's made by Dreigh & Douglas of Leith, & is hard enough to double up as a hockey puck... I have the plain tin like yours - & also a double ended one, marked Tea & Sugar - you know the type. I know these are typically earlier, but do you know if they were used into WW1 too? ChrisP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 6 November , 2011 Share Posted 6 November , 2011 'evening Joe; How's the world treating you? The purpose of the Marlin spike was for splicing ropes, & long used by the Royal Navy. As you will know it's issue wasn't universal, as it didn't replace the other patterns, & limited to certain troops -I've always assumed that would be for RFA, RE, ASC, etc, who would have the most need for it.. There were an awful lot of patterns for one war..! I've never been able to find a British issued steel scaled knife - have you? - or any one else for that matter? ChrisP Chris, Actually I was looking at the damage on the spike-obviuosly that one was used for more than just cleaning hooves and splicing ropes. Life not treating me too bad. Take care, Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris P Posted 6 November , 2011 Share Posted 6 November , 2011 Joe- Sorry - I missed you point! He was probably using it to break an army biscuit ..... Whilst I'm here, & in the same vein, this ideal milk tin came to me with the '18 dated bully beef one. Both souvenirs from the 1919 Russian campaign. Can't see why anyone would keep empty cans, but I'm glad they did... Chrisp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 6 November , 2011 Share Posted 6 November , 2011 Just love those photographs of commercial tins/cans, great stuff, keep it coming. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now