Richard GM Posted 7 October , 2020 Share Posted 7 October , 2020 Hi corisande, good to reestablish contact after all this time:-) The group of medals including the "fake" GM are up for auction again with Spinks in London in early December. Spinks have offered to broker a private deal so that the group can be reunited with the original GM. However, they are asking more that we can afford, so sadly we may lose contact with them again. I'm not sure if I mentioned it on this forum, but I managed to make contact with the current owner of the group via the British Medal Forum and was able to meet him with the medals in London, he was willing to sell the group to us, but he understandably wanted to cover his cost of his winning bid + buyers premium and import duty (Spinks in New York 2016) which amounted to a sizeable amount. I assume he is now putting them up for auction with Spinks in London, who claim that there is a lot of interest in the market for a group of medals like this, especially now that the Kelly story, partly due to the information that came to light as a result of this forum. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Spinks (they sent me a draft of their listing) are focusing more on the negative side (some of it speculative) during the time my grandfather spent as an intelligence officer in Ireland, rather than the more significant story behind the Great War medals and the GM awarded for his bravery during the WW2 blitz in coventry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 7 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2020 Hi Richard Thanks for updating the current state of affairs on the medals Not being a collector, I have no idea how the "fake" GM influences the bidding I have always tried to put out the facts and let others spin if that they needed/wanted to, and I am aware I cannot control the interpretation. Particularly with the War of Independence, there is a set of facts and many interpretations :-) I am really sorry that you were not able to acquire the medals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medalmonkey Posted 8 December , 2020 Share Posted 8 December , 2020 The GM was described as an official duplicate, rather than a fake. Huge difference. What a story, I tried to buy them when Spink NY had them. I would love to see how the original GM naming compares to the replacement. If the current owner of the original GM could make contact it would be appreciated. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY MIDDLEHURST Posted 8 December , 2020 Share Posted 8 December , 2020 I have the original Gm ,I am fairly sure , it’s in its original box . Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY MIDDLEHURST Posted 8 December , 2020 Share Posted 8 December , 2020 I will post a photo of the Kelly medal I have ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medalmonkey Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 I am hoping to research this man fully, any additional info would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 11 February , 2021 Share Posted 11 February , 2021 Medalmonkey wrote: "The GM was described as an official duplicate, rather than a fake. Huge difference." Don't belief everything you read in an auction catalog. The George Medal that is with the Kelly group that was sold twice by Spink is a Type II George Medal, rather than a Type I George Medal which is what Kelly was issued in 1940. In fact there was no GM with the group when it was sold by Sotheby & Company in its 27 June 1973 auction. The Kelly group appeared in the 25 February 1980 catalogue of Charles A Lusted (a British medal dealer) with the GM listed as a "replacement." It appeared with the group when it was sold by Christie's auction of 21 October 1989 where the GM was described as "a renamed replacement" and then was sold by Floyd, Johnson & Payne in their auction of 2 August 1995 described as "replacement." The first time I can find that it was described as an "official replacement" is in the Spink USA auction of 11-12 January 2016. The last I heard (about a year and half ago) the original GM issued to Kelly is still in the hands of his family. I have no idea what Kelly GM Andy Middlehurst has and will be interested to see an image of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 11 February , 2021 Share Posted 11 February , 2021 Andy Middlehurst wrote: "I have the original Gm ,I am fairly sure , it’s in its original box " Andy: In your post of 5 October 2020 you describe the "original Kelly GM" that you have as being named to "Lt. C. Kelly, RGA". It would appear that this is something else other than a George Medal as the George Medal was not instituted until 24 September 1940 and the RGA (Royal Garrison Artillery) went out of existence in 1924. Also Kelly was a civilian in 1940 when he received the George Medal (he was dismissed the service by sentence of General Court Martial on 31 August 1928 for "making fraudulent statements on pay lists") so the naming on his medal should have no rank or regiment, just his full name and post-nominals. I would be interested in seeing the medal you have named to "Lt. C. Kelly, RGA." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medalmonkey Posted 30 March , 2021 Share Posted 30 March , 2021 I am planning to write a book about his life . Any information would be appreciated Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2022 Someone sent me a couple of pension cards on Kelly from Fold3 I am confused by these as he does not seem to have been a Temp Capt until Jan 1926, and his OBE is from Jan 1923 This link - click - gives my detailed notes on his life Apart from dating the two cards, I am also confused by "Mental Case" His Court Martial was in Jul 1928 and I don't think that mental instability came up in that case Intelligence men were under a lot of strain, and their suicide rate was high. But I have seen no evidence of his mental health being bad Can anyone help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medalmonkey Posted 12 June , 2022 Share Posted 12 June , 2022 On 27/01/2022 at 21:30, corisande said: Someone sent me a couple of pension cards on Kelly from Fold3 I am confused by these as he does not seem to have been a Temp Capt until Jan 1926, and his OBE is from Jan 1923 This link - click - gives my detailed notes on his life Apart from dating the two cards, I am also confused by "Mental Case" His Court Martial was in Jul 1928 and I don't think that mental instability came up in that case Intelligence men were under a lot of strain, and their suicide rate was high. But I have seen no evidence of his mental health being bad Can anyone help. I have the medals and a file of original documents. There is a letter from someone very close to him saying he would have been a great man if his nerves were not shot. I think he was badly affected by what he had seen, heard and done ! It may also explain the non custodial sentences in 1926 and 1941. Any information that anyone has please drop me a PM or post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medalmonkey Posted 29 November , 2023 Share Posted 29 November , 2023 I am recovering from heart surgery and have a bit of spare time on my hands, like 20 hrs a day! I would like to progress the research on this - if anyone has any additional information regarding Kelly I would appreciate it if you can post here or message me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 29 November , 2023 Share Posted 29 November , 2023 This might be of interest: http://www.bloodysunday.co.uk/castle-intelligence/kelly/kelly.html TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medalmonkey Posted 29 November , 2023 Share Posted 29 November , 2023 thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now