Lt Campbell Joseph O'Connor Kelly, OBE, GM, MC, MM

[kellyedmund]

just an observation on his name "joeseph or joe .this is incorrect. It is l.o.c. which looks like joe when written in script.(census 1911 for father) LOC stands for luke o conor which the eldest boy took.

[corisande]

I got his death cert, which shows that he died from kidney stones and other kidney problems

It would appear to indicate that he did not commit suicide. I can still find no reference to a trial for bigamy, so either it was hushed up, he being a hero, or he died before the trial took place.

Has Churchfield got any further with local info?

[corisande]

I thought that a bounced cheque as the most likely thing, as "real" fraud would presumably have brought about criminal charges and loss of medals. But I have no idea if the charge "fraudulent statement" covered that or not.

I have now got his court martial charges. Looks fairly criminal to me, a series of instances of him drawing cheques for himself "with intent to defraud" totaling over £300

Charge sheet on this link - click

It is surprising that criminal charges were not instigated, and that he "got away" with being dismissed the service. I assume his outstanding war record must have held sway, but I have no evidence for that.

[kellyedmund]

Reading a book on the burning of cork city.They have him down as captain james Kelly.Interestingly all hell broke loose after the Ira attempted to kill him in Dillons Cross ambush.Strange historical period. Would be interesting if some one would write a book from the establishment side. Ones views change when you have a relative involved in fighting the heroes we grew up believing in.

[Richard GM]

Very interesting thread especially because O'Connor Kelly was my grandfather. I am one of 5 children born to his daughter Monica and I was born in 1946. Of course I never knew my grandfather and neither my grandmother or my mother talked much about him, other than to say that he was a hero from the Coventry blitz. I remember my grandmother showing me his medals (I now realise that they must have been the miniature dress set) but for some strange reason I never questioned her on where they all came from. The GM from the Coventry blitz is all that I recall. My mother died in 2006 and my elder brother inherited the miniature  dress set of medals. His son did some research and came across the notes from corisande, which then led me to this forum. Thank you for all of you who have contributed to this thread and for some disturbing information concerning my grandfathers bigamy. Maybe my grandmother did not wish to talk about that to the point where even my mother and other siblings were not aware of it. If they were, it was certainly never discussed within the family during their lifetime (my mothers brothers and sisters are now all dead). We are now particularly interested to know what happened to my grandfathers medals. We cannot believe that my grandmother would have sold them, but 'needs must' and maybe she needed the money. I do know that she was victim to a conman who deprived here of her valuable collections of stamps, coins and victorian scent bottles, all for 50 quid, but this was towards the end of here life in 1980, 7 years after the medals were sold for the first time by Sotheby's. I would be very interested to hear more from the participants to this thread. Particularly, kellyedmund (is he a relative?)...where did he obtain the information about Monica being trained as an s.a.s. parachutist?...I'm sure I would have know about that. She was in the RAF during WW2 and at the end of the war was based in a control room somewhere monitoring aircraft movements during air raids.

Edited 2 September , 2016 by Richard GM

[corisande]

Welcome to the forum Richard

 

Certainly your grandfather had a fascinating life. Both the flaws and the bravery in his character were common among many that served in post-WW1 Ireland.

 

If you can correct or amplify anything I have on him I would be grateful

 

http://www.cairogang.com/other-people/british/castle-intelligence/kelly/kelly.html

[Richard GM]

Thank you, I am doing some further research and if anything comes up that amends or adds to your excellent notes, then of course I will report on here.

[Richard GM]

Is Major-General rflory still active on this forum? I would be interested to know his source for information on my grandfather's medals

[Derek Black]

14 minutes ago, Richard GM said:

Is Major-General rflory still active on this forum? I would be interested to know his source for information on my grandfather's medals

Yes. Richard regularly posts.

 

If you send him a P.M. (personal message) i'm sure he'd be happy to correspond.

 

Cheers,

Derek.

[lennyeschle]

Hello Richard. I'm the Len Eschle referred to in an earlier post. Your mother's father, Bernard Eschle, and my great grandfather, Leonard Eschle were brothers. I cannot shed any more light on your grandfather, but if you'd like any information about your Eschle ancestors please let me know. Best wishes Len

[Richard GM]

Hi Len, thank you for your input:-) I think you mean my grandmother's father was Bernard Eschle? Are you a member of ancestry.com? There is a vast family tree concerning your side of the family created by MikeMay11 entitled ESCHLE FAMILY TREE ...not sure if the link will work for non members, but you can get a 2 week free membership if you are interested.

 

Best Regards, Richard 

[lennyeschle]

Hello Richard

 

It's great to hear from you. Your grandfather's life story would make a wonderful film or drama series.

 

Unfortunately my ancestry.co.uk membership has lapsed. Mike and I shared quite a lot of the information making up the family tree on ancestry.

 

Yes,  Bernard was of course your great grandfather. I think that makes us third cousins. I've been able to get in touch with a few other of Bernard's descendants in recent years. I doubt that would have been possible without the internet.

 

My own great grandfather, Leonard, remained in Wales, following in his own grandfather's footsteps as a clock and watchmaker. Bernard was an ironmonger when he still lived in Wales, but I believe he worked in a munitions factory during the war. Leonard and Bernard's youngest brother Arthur was killed in action on 1 July 1916. He was in the Leeds Pals. Arthur was working as a teacher in Leeds at the outbreak of WWW. I provided the Leeds Pals website with much of Arthur's biographical information, although there are a couple of errors; Arthur did not serve in the Boer War (he was too young)  but an Andrew Eschle of Edinburgh was there. I haven't been able to establish if Andrew is related.

 

Thanks again for getting back to me. I hope you find out where your grandfather's medals ended up.

 

Very best wishes

 

Len

[Richard GM]

Thanks Len, well I'm sure we know where the medals ended up, following their sale at Christy's earlier this year. However, I'm more interested in their whereabouts between 1942 (reportedly accompanied him at his funeral) and the sale at Sotheby's in 1973. My elder brother inherited the miniature dress set, but we don't know who had possession of the actual medal set between those dates...I'm working on it, but if you or anyone else reading this forum, can add any clues then I would be most grateful.

 

Best Regards,

 

Richard

[kellyedmund]

Good to hear from you Richard.I am one of your Irish cousins.My grandfather edmund was Campbells uncle .I would have heard family stories about Campbell and his achievements from my father. I had a letter from a descendant of charles kelly living in Athenry which stated your mothers army career but it may not have been accurate.I am still researching the kelly family Have gone back to a dr luke kelly in 1800 whose first wife died and may have been  an O Connor.Hence the" luke o c" in your grandfathers name.

[Richard GM]

Hi Edmund, nice to hear from you too. You may be interested to know that another cousin, Mike May has created quite a large family tree entitled O'Conor Kelly on ansestry.com You might want to take a look...his username is MikeMay11...you will need to ask him to view it. He has not included our generation, but there are Edmund Kelly's going back 4 generations. Who was your father? It shows a Charles Luke O'Connor Kelly 1863 - 1935 married to Margaret M Fair, who were the parents of my grandfather. This appears to be the first generation to adopt the name O'Connor (more recently spelt Conor) Kelly.

[kellyedmund]

My father was Patrick Kelly 1926-1997.He was born in Churchfield House knock co mayo ireland .Cambell was also born here.My line is as follows  Patrick--Edmund Walter (b1876)-Edmund Charles(coroner for east mayo  1879 -1915  born 1829- Dr-luke walter  b1802- Edmund or Charles (Apothaceries) 1770s. Dr luke became a surgeon in British Army and lived in Ceylon,Some of the family had a tea plantation called Castlerea after their dads home town.If you look at rootschat ireland and search for dr luke kelly you wil lsee this.

[kellyedmund]

Just found new birth records, Dr Luke Kelly married Maria Elizabeth O Conor in 1824 .She was daughter of Richadd O Connor of Milton Co Roscommon.They Had 3 children.Elizabeth  (1826).Edmund c(1828) and Richard (1830).She died aged 25 in 1831 in Castlerea co Roscommon He later married Emily M Shuttleworth in London and had many more children and lived in Ceylon(army surgeon.)He died in 1843.So this is why the descendents of this first marriage used the "Luke O Conor " in their name..Hpe this fits in with your research.

[Guest]

Intriguing Campbell J O’Conor Kelly was present at his sister’s wedding (my grandmother’s) in 1923. In 1947/8 his medals were returned by his niece (my mother) to his widow (Eileen) in London. At this, their first meeting, she received a proper ‘Kelly’s welcome’ (Failte Uí Cheallaigh). As much of CJ’s past is seen through an ‘emerald prism’ it’s hard to be objective. An interesting link was the departure of his brother (Robert) aged 22yrs (‘Retired Detective Constable’) on 28th June 1923 ex Southampton for NY on the Veendam. He subsequently joined the Detroit Police Dept but died, after an 8 month illness, aged 32yrs. The US press note another brother (Owen) in NY ... but this does not correlate Irish records (?)

[ANDY MIDDLEHURST]

On 02/09/2016 at 15:10, Richard GM said:

Very interesting thread especially because O'Connor Kelly was my grandfather. I am one of 5 children born to his daughter Monica and I was born in 1946. Of course I never knew my grandfather and neither my grandmother or my mother talked much about him, other than to say that he was a hero from the Coventry blitz. I remember my grandmother showing me his medals (I now realise that they must have been the miniature dress set) but for some strange reason I never questioned her on where they all came from. The GM from the Coventry blitz is all that I recall. My mother died in 2006 and my elder brother inherited the miniature  dress set of medals. His son did some research and came across the notes from corisande, which then led me to this forum. Thank you for all of you who have contributed to this thread and for some disturbing information concerning my grandfathers bigamy. Maybe my grandmother did not wish to talk about that to the point where even my mother and other siblings were not aware of it. If they were, it was certainly never discussed within the family during their lifetime (my mothers brothers and sisters are now all dead). We are now particularly interested to know what happened to my grandfathers medals. We cannot believe that my grandmother would have sold them, but 'needs must' and maybe she needed the money. I do know that she was victim to a conman who deprived here of her valuable collections of stamps, coins and victorian scent bottles, all for 50 quid, but this was towards the end of here life in 1980, 7 years after the medals were sold for the first time by Sotheby's. I would be very interested to hear more from the participants to this thread. Particularly, kellyedmund (is he a relative?)...where did he obtain the information about Monica being trained as an s.a.s. parachutist?...I'm sure I would have know about that. She was in the RAF during WW2 and at the end of the war was based in a control room somewhere monitoring aircraft movements during air raids.

Hi , I think I have his original GM ! It looks like his medals where sold in Auction with a rename Gm ! I was looking at my medals ,researching , then came accross this forum link ! Andy 

[ANDY MIDDLEHURST]

On 02/09/2016 at 15:10, Richard GM said:

Very interesting thread especially because O'Connor Kelly was my grandfather. I am one of 5 children born to his daughter Monica and I was born in 1946. Of course I never knew my grandfather and neither my grandmother or my mother talked much about him, other than to say that he was a hero from the Coventry blitz. I remember my grandmother showing me his medals (I now realise that they must have been the miniature dress set) but for some strange reason I never questioned her on where they all came from. The GM from the Coventry blitz is all that I recall. My mother died in 2006 and my elder brother inherited the miniature  dress set of medals. His son did some research and came across the notes from corisande, which then led me to this forum. Thank you for all of you who have contributed to this thread and for some disturbing information concerning my grandfathers bigamy. Maybe my grandmother did not wish to talk about that to the point where even my mother and other siblings were not aware of it. If they were, it was certainly never discussed within the family during their lifetime (my mothers brothers and sisters are now all dead). We are now particularly interested to know what happened to my grandfathers medals. We cannot believe that my grandmother would have sold them, but 'needs must' and maybe she needed the money. I do know that she was victim to a conman who deprived here of her valuable collections of stamps, coins and victorian scent bottles, all for 50 quid, but this was towards the end of here life in 1980, 7 years after the medals were sold for the first time by Sotheby's. I would be very interested to hear more from the participants to this thread. Particularly, kellyedmund (is he a relative?)...where did he obtain the information about Monica being trained as an s.a.s. parachutist?...I'm sure I would have know about that. She was in the RAF during WW2 and at the end of the war was based in a control room somewhere monitoring aircraft movements during air raids.

Hi Richard , I think I have his original George Medal ! Looks like his medals where sold in Auction with a rename GM , mine is in the original box ,and named Lieut C Kelly R G Av, it’s in its box of issue ,Andy M 

[Richard GM]

Hi Andy, my brother has the original GM named CAMPBELL JOSEPH KELLY. OBE.,MC.,MM. It was presumed missing until my brother found it among the miniatures (dress medals) of all the other medals in the group. Your GM must be referring to a different Kelly, which was a common name in Ireland at that time.

 

Richard

[Richard GM]

I contacted my brother and he adds: This odd. I know Kelly itself is quite a common name, but the chances of their being another Kelly, initial C, also commissioned and in the RGA and who was subsequently awarded a GM seem unlikely.

 

How did you come by this GM?

 

Richard

[Coldstreamer]

wasnt this sold at DNW or spinks ?  

[corisande]

On 29/10/2011 at 19:55, rflory said:

Kelly's Medals were sold at Christie's 21 November 1989 auction for £1100 plus a 10% buyer's premium (his George Medal is listed as 'a renamed replacement). I was later offered this group by a well-known UK dealer but did not purchase it due to the questionable provenance of the George Medal, which was missing from the group when it was sold by Sotheby's in 1973 and Lusted in 1980 (the GM in the Christie's sale was a Type II, but should have been a Type I). Kelly's medals were later sold at auction by Floyd, Johnson and Paine in one of their auctions prior to an OMSA Convention. If I remember correctly the GM was listed as 'officially renamed' and the lot went for somewhere around $4400. Regards, Dick Flory

 

Its in this thread 

[Coldstreamer]

thought was more recent than that