Slow Horses and Fast Women

[Steven Broomfield]

his 7th Hussars friend John Beresford, which was found tucked inside Haig's diary for 1888: "Sly rascal, I knew you could not keep off the females and I am glad you got the other two..."

Shame the News of the Screws is no longer with us: "C in C in 3 in a bed sex romp shock" sounds rather good, along with "Churchill: Mt drugs hell - I was high all through the Gallipoli campaign".

[George Armstrong Custer]

Stop it, you.

[salesie]

Nothing much I'd argue with you there about, old chum. Apart from that 'nucleonic' - I do wish you'd stop going on these bloody creative writing courses!

George

Philistine!

Cheers-salesie.

[truthergw]

So to sum up Haig was a sex God?

Admiring Pete

All men born or brought up between the Forth and the North Esk are sex gods. Always have been, always will be. We don't brag about it, it's just the way things are.

[Steven Broomfield]

So it's true: nothing is worn under the kilt? It really is all in good working order.

(Reckon we can get this thread closed if we try hard enough , then move on to the Downton Abbey one ...)

[keithmroberts]

if you carry on like this it'll end up in Skindles!

keith

(maybe not)

[Guest]

All men born or brought up between the Forth and the North Esk are sex gods. Always have been, always will be. We don't brag about it, it's just the way things are.

Aye. richt enough Tam.

The Scotsman - Saturday, 10th November 1928, page 11

Foch.

In one of the last talks I had with your great countryman, Earl Haig, he said to me ' It is when I. think of the dead that I am proudest of my countrymen, I realise that the race is greater than ever it was. Great as were the heroes of the world, they never attained to such heights of greatness as the commonest soldier of our Armies who died amid the horrors of this inferno that we call the World War.' " " And I agree with Earl Haig."-

Mike

[squirrel]

Agree also Mike. And, according to some writers/reviewers/historians and a wealth of others, "he didn't care"!

[truthergw]

Aye. richt enough Tam.

The Scotsman - Saturday, 10th November 1928, page 11

Foch.

In one of the last talks I had with your great countryman, Earl Haig, he said to me ' It is when I. think of the dead that I am proudest of my countrymen, I realise that the race is greater than ever it was. Great as were the heroes of the world, they never attained to such heights of greatness as the commonest soldier of our Armies who died amid the horrors of this inferno that we call the World War.' " " And I agree with Earl Haig."-

Mike

Is this the same tongue tied, inarticulate man who could not put two words together?

[phil andrade]

Why has this side of Haig's character - which is so much more attractive - not shone through ?

It's a pity, it really is.

In terms of his battlefield achievements, I think I can speak for many when I say that Terraine rescued us from the clutches of the Eee- Awers, but a bit more of the personal anecdote, a flash of warmth and humour, would do so much to enhance his reputation.

Phil (PJA)

[salesie]

Why has this side of Haig's character - which is so much more attractive - not shone through ?

It's a pity, it really is.

In terms of his battlefield achievements, I think I can speak for many when I say that Terraine rescued us from the clutches of the Eee- Awers, but a bit more of the personal anecdote, a flash of warmth and humour, would do so much to enhance his reputation.

Phil (PJA)

The vast majority of his men respected him, his wife, kids and dogs loved him - what more could a man want? A shot at Britain's Got Talent?

Cheers-salesie.

[Steven Broomfield]

Salesie; I believe (I might be wrong) that it was browning who said no man was a hero to his valet.

I believe, however, that Haig even scored on that one.

(And I prefer the thought of Haig on Pro Celebrity Golf with Brucie and Tarbie ... those were the days).

[squirrel]

I believe, however, that Haig even scored on that one.

It's no Secrett.

[Guest]

" Is this the same tongue tied, inarticulate man who could not put two words together? "

Indeed Tom.

No lack of affection for, or lack of humour, or articulacy from Haig, here?

The Scotsman - Monday, 12th May 1919, page 6

Sir Douglas Haig Among his " Ain Folk "

FREEDOM OF THE CAPITAL OF FIFE

SIR DOUGLAS HAIG'S SPEECH

Sir Douglas Haig, who was greeted with prolonged cheers on rising to reply, said:-Provost Stark, Magistrates of Cupar, my Lord Duke , Ladies and Gentlemen,-I thank you Provost Stark, the ancient Burgh of Cupar, and the whole Kingdom of Fife most warmly for the splendid reception given to my wife and myself, and for the great generosity you have shown towards us both by your words and actions. (Cheers) I cannot thank you sufficiently for the way you have decorated your town, and for all the nice mottoes I read on my way to the Church. From what I have been told, the freedom of Cupar would seem to be a peculiarly exclusive priviege. (Laughter) It is I believe, some hundreds of years ago since the freedom of the Burgh was conferred upon anyone. While I find it hard to believe that I am the first person for so long a period who has proved himself of sufficient worth to receive that honour (Laughter)-at least I am entitled to pride myself that, after an interval so long, I am in fact the first upon whom it has been conferred. Sufficient is it for me to know that after many years, during which I doubt not the successive Provosts of Cupar scrutinised the men of their day with a jealous and appraising eye-(Laughter)-your choice has fallen upon me. (Cheers) I am content, therefore, to let the question of my worthiness for so signal a distinction be submerged in my deep gratitude for the kindness you are showing me. (Cheers) I do indeed consider myself most fortunate, not merely that it has been given me to command great Armies and lead them, by God's help, to success, but that in doing so I should at the same time have won so affectionate a regard among my own countrymen. (Cheers) I do thank you most profoundly for the warmth and sincerity of your greeting.

THE DEED OF THE HIGHLAND DIVISION

It was particularly pleasant to me during my visit to Glasgow to notice among those assembled to meet me, so many of the men who served under my command in France (Cheers)I am very glad indeed to see others of them here today, and to be able to thank them for for the splendid service which they and their comrades from all parts of Scotland have rendered their King and country. (Cheers) In particular I am proud to think that from this neighbourhood, with which my own family is connected-(Cheers)-were recruited so many of the 51st Division than which no Division in France is more famous. Whether we look to the battle of the Somme in 1916, to the battles of Arras, Ypres, or Cambrai, or to the great battles of 1918, in all the 51st Division took part, and covered itself and Scotland with glory of great deeds. (Loud cheers) Gentlemen I think that we can truly say-with all reverence and without setting ouselves too high in our own estimation-that we have done great things together. (Cheers) officers, non commissioned officers and men have given their best, without thought of self, strong in the spirit of comradeship which pervaded all portions of the Army, whensoever they were recruited, but was to be found nowhere more clearly pronounced than in the Scottish regiments. (Cheers)

THE ARMY'S VALOUR AND DEVOTION

There is nothing like the comradeship in war to make known one to another the greatness or weaknesses of men. Friendship and respect born of comradeship in danger, must be founded on real appreciation, sympathy and understanding, for in battle, men stand out as their real selves and are known to all who come in contact with them, for what they are worth. I for one have brought with me from this war a most profound admiration for the magnificent qualities displayed by all ranks under my command. Each in their several spheres of action, officers, non commissioned officers, and men have given evidence of so much courage, endurance, and devotion that a man must be made of stone who would not be moved thereby. (Cheers) But in paying my tribute to those who have fought so gallantly, I do not wish it to be thought that I praise one more than another, or that I deem that the gratitude of their country is due to men more than officers, or to officers or non commissioned officers more than the rank and file of the Army. To obtain success in war, as in every walk of lif, one must have both brave and loyal service, and honest, skilful and courageous leadership; and to have both the one and the other, there must be confidence, mutual trust, and unity of purpose and endeavour, between leader and led. (Cheers) That mutual respect, confidence, and affection has existed among all ranks of the Army to an extent which I believe has seldom been equalled, and I am confident, has never been surpassed. (Cheers)

COMMON SACRIFICE IN PEACE AS IN WAR

Now that the fighting is over and we are looking forward to a long and prosperous peace, I want to see the same sense of unity and comradeship preserved in peace, so that it may ensure for our and the Empire in peace , a success equal to to that which it gained for us in war. (Cheers) Only by common action and self sacrificing work, can the highest results be obtained, no matter what may the object of our striving. Jealousy and rivalry never accomplished any great constructive work, or added one jot or little to the good, whether of the individual or of the community. We are in need now of constructive effort, more than in any other period of our history; and without it our recovery from the long strain of war must be indefinitely delayed. Without it we can never hope to attain the full fruits of the great efforts and sacrifices that we have made, or to lift ourselves and our countrymen to a better and happier state of life. (Cheers) You will pardon me if I have used an occasion such as this to say a few words upon a subject upon which I feel very deeply. But in seeing so many of you here today, men and women of all stations in life, come together with so much friendliness and enthusiasm to do honour to me, who was but the centre, as regards the Army I commanded, of that unity of endeavourwhich carried us to victory, I felt that I might reasonably be permitted to point a moral, which is, perhaps the greatest gift that war can give to peace. (Cheers) I thank you for the patience with which you have heard me, and thank you again, Provost Stark, and the whole of the Kingdom of Fife, and all those associated with Cupar, for your very great kindness, and the very warm welcome which you have been good enough to give me. (Loud and prolonged cheers)

A beautiful bouquet was then presented to Lady Haig, by Margaret Brown, daughter of councillor T L Brown. The National Anthem was sung, and on the call of the Provost, ringing cheers were given for Sir Douglas Haig, the audience led by the discharged soldiers, following this up with a boisterous rendering of " He's a jolly good fellow "

After the ceremony had concluded, two flashlight photographs were taken, and outside the church, Sir Douglas Haig and party again posed for the camera men.

LUNCH IN THE COUNTY HALL

After a speech by Provost Stark

SIR DOUGLAS HAIG AND OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT

Sir Douglas Haig, on rising was greeted with cheers.

He said:-Provost Stark, My Lord Duke, ladies and gentlemen, I do not propose to detain you long now, for I have already said my say, and in another place, have endeavoured to point out the the lesson of comradeshipand unselfishness, which I do most earnestly believe will be the chief, and most important lesson of the war. If I am correctly informed, there was a movement on foot in this burgh, some several scores of years ago to grant the great privilege of your freedom to a certain gentleman, whose principle claim to your generosity and recognition was that he proposed to use his good offices and influence with the Government of the day to obtain therefrom a grant of money with which to erect in Cupar or it's neighbourhood a new up to date and commodious Jail! (Laughter)

I rejoice to think that the Provost and Bailies of this ancient and honourable burgh thought better of their first intention, and that they chose to wait until the passage of years brought to their successors in office the opportunity to honour-in my fortunate person-principles of liberty rather than methods of incarceration. (Laughter and cheers) As you sir have rightly indicated, it is for liberty and justicethat we have fought gainst a system of government that knew no laws higher than it's own will or it's own thirst foe world domination. Supposing that we give our enemies credit for believing in the system that they endeavoured to impose upon other nations, nevertheless we know that the system of law under which we ourselves live-fruit of the striving and suffering of the centuries-is better and nobler than that which any other country in the worls can boast. Ours is the freedom which does not depend upon the subjection and ruin of our neighbours-(Hear-hear)-any more than it is at variance with an ordered and well conditioned social state in which every man can rest content that the fruit of his labour industry and saving will be left to himself and his children to enjoy. (Cheers)

FREEDOM FROM CLASS GOVERNMENT DOMINATION

You have said Provost, that I have brought to this country, freedom from German slavery. I would rather say that the native spirit and courage of our race rebelled against an attempt to thrust upon us and upon the other free nations of the world the domination of a form of class government, which puts it's trust in force and crude efficiency and in nothing else. We are also efficient, also we have shown to all the world we are strong; but we believe also in something more than this, something higher than the gratification of our own desires-I mean the possibility that by human endeavour and self sacrifice the world that we have found good may be made better for our children. (Cheers) In the peace which you, Provost have forecast, I hope that the opportunity that now is ours will be turned to the best account; and that it will be I have no doubt at all if only the same spirit which inspired our Army in war, can be instilled and made permanent in our nation at peace.

In conclusion sir, let me thank you once again for the most generous terms in which you have referred to such services as I have been privileged to render to my country; and I may say that however gratifying it may be to me to feel that I have played my part not unworthily in the great war, it is yet more gratifying to find that I have won for myself so much gratitude and affection in the hearts of my "ain folk" as have been manifested to me today. (Cheers) Mr Provost and gentlemen, I thank you from my heart for the splendid welcome you have given me. No one could imagine anything more thorough and more coming from the heart than the welcome you have given me today. (Loud cheers)

There is more of interest in this article, and well worth £7-odd for 24 hours, to have a look at it.

Mike

[truthergw]

" Is this the same tongue tied, inarticulate man who could not put two words together? "

Indeed Tom.

No lack of affection for, or lack of humour, or articulacy from Haig, here?

The Scotsman - Monday, 12th May 1919, page 6

Sir Douglas Haig Among his " Ain Folk "

Edit...........

Mike

Thanks for that Mike.

[Guest]

You're welcome Tom. There are quite a few of his speeches featured in the Scotsman. The reception he received, wherever he went in 1919, shows at this time he was very popular. A real sense of humour comes over too. When I get a minute, I will type out the St Andrews speech.

From Countess Haig's book, more Haig humour "Once in 1916, when the king was in France, Haig gave a big luncheon party. No wine was drunk, and Douglas was much amused at Joffre's look of horror when he was offered the choice of lemonade or ginger beer. "

Mike

[Guest]

More interesting insights into Haig's character, and I think, these speeches show an articulate man, with a fine sense of humour, who cared deeply about the men who served under him.

The Scotsman-Wednesday 14th May 1919, page 6

PLEA FOR EX-SERVICE MEN

Fiels-Marshal Sir Douglas Haig, continuing his triumphal tour from honour to honour gladly bestowed by his own Scottish people received yesterday the freedom of the Royal Burgh of St Andrews

......the band striking up " see the conquering hero come ". On alighting from the motor car he inspected the contingent of ex service men, chatted with several of them, including Sgt Walker, who had about 4 yrs service and has the Belgian Croix de Guerre, and when his quick eyes noted the VC ribbon on the breast of Sgt Ripley, another native of the town, the Field Marshal warmly shook hands with him, and enquired about the deed which gained him the distinction, and which he performed 4 yrs ago this month. " I thank you very much " remarked Sir Douglas ^ for what you have done " then he inspected the guard of honour, and exchanged a word or two with it's members, and with the members of the Black Watch pipe band, after which he entered the hall, where the chief ceremony of the day took place.

SIR DOUGLAS HAIG'S SPEECH

Sir Douglas Haig said-" he tought he could fairly claim that he was not altogether a stranger to St Andrews. Not only was hid grandfather, William Haig of Seggie, Provost of St Andrews for several years, but he himself came as a boy to visit his aunts at Kincaple some 4 miles away. (Cheers) Then he was for half a year at school in the town, and since then he had been for many years a member of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club. (Cheers.) It would therefore seem the less remarkable to them, that with such notable antecedents to aid him, he had had the good fortune to build up for himself in Great Britain and the world some little reputation not perhaps unworthy of St Andrews. (Cheers) Even though however, he could boast no such past connections with this most famous town, the nature of their welcome to him that day would amply suffice to make him feel that he was indeed home among them. (Cheers)

It was his first duty to express, on behalf of Lady Haig and himself their deep appreciation and gratitude for all that the citizens had done to make them feel that in coming to St Andrews they were returning to old friends. (Cheers) He counted it a great privilege to receive the freedom of a town so long renowned in history, the ancient walls of which told so many stories of bygone days, and called to mind so many famous names. Yet still more however did he value the knowledge that in conferring that honour upon him they had made it the occasion to express to him so much personal good feeling, so affectionate a regard for himself. (Cheers)

THE MEN WHO WON THE VICTORY

He could not forget that such good fortune could scarcely have been his that day had it not been for the courage, devotion, and self sacrifice of all ranks of the wonderful Army, which for more than 3 yrs he was privileged to command. (Cheers) In the midst of the honours and the kindnesses now being showered upon him, he should count himself little did he omit to pay tribute to those brave men who risked and endured so much to make victory possible. (Cheers) It was to him a very pleasant thought that in so distinguishing him they sought also to honour them. While one of the happiest features of his rounds of visits so far had been the number of ex service men who had turned out to welcome him. He was indeed most grateful to them, for he knew their worth. (Cheers) A few days ago a caricature in one of the Scottish papers, drawn he hoped and believed, in a spirit of the utmost and most friendly good humour, portrayed him as returning from his visit to Scotland staggering under a mountainous load of caskets and diplomas. (Laughter) The drawing, if he remembered rightly, was entitled " For freedom has it's burdens too, no less renowned that war " (Laughter)

COUNTRY'S DUTY TOWARDS THE SOLDIER

When he regarded his ever growing collection of gifts he could not but admit that whoever drew that picture had a certain amount of foundation for his witticism! If so, the fault lay not with him, but with the great and abundant generosity of his countrymen. He valued very highly the sentiments that inspired that generosity, but that he should feel somewhat ill at ease did he think that those splendid gifts were made at the expense of the thousands upon thousands of ex service officers and men whose claims upon their generosity were much greater than his. (Cheers) It was because he did not think this, but was convinced that the same generous spirit to which he owed all those magnificent mementoes would see to it that everything possible was done for the relief of ex service officers and men who needed assistance-and especially the wounded and disabled-that he was proud to accept, in the spirit in which they were given, the magnificent presents which they had made to him. (Cheers)

THE FUTURE BURDEN

The Provost had drawn a parallel between the times of his grandfather, when he was Provost of this town, and the situation of today. It was a just parallel, for both periods were rightly considered critical for the future of the race. If our country was to come safely through these present days, and in them register an advance as large as, or he hoped many times larger than, even the great days of the reform bill, we must acknowledge in a large and generous spirit our indebtedness to those who gave us the opportunity that was ours today. (Cheers) We must all combine in friendly and united effort, to turn our chances to the best account. When he reflected on the qualities the nation had displayed under the hammer of war, he was very hopeful for the future. He for one would do what he could, and he counted on all whose help meant so much to him in the past years to do their part too with the same self sacrificing patriotism they then displayed. (Cheers) Therefore did he take up "freedom's burden " with an easy conscience and grateful heart, knowing that their gifts would be to him remembrances of so many happy days in which there was given him that, for more than which no man can ask or hope-the honour, gratitude, affection and good will of all classes of his countrymen. (Prolonged cheers)

A FAREWELL SOLO

As the Field Marshal went downstairs to the street, a little incident, inspired by exuberance and good intention, but not without it's humorous aspect took place. An enthusiastic usher, an ex service man and fervent admirer of the man of the hour, burst into the singing of, " Will ye no come back again?" He quite obviously expected choral assistance, but, probably due to native timidity on the part of of his neighbours, his effort became a valedictory solo, which he sang to the end. Sir Douglas Haig smilingly lingered to the close of the song, and rewarded the enthusuiast with a hearty handshake and a word of thanks.

A Civic luncheon followed at the University followed, where Provost Sloan made a speech.

SIR DOUGLAS HAIG'S REPLY

" It is indeed a wonderful and most stirring experience to find myself everywhere acclaimed in so magnificent a manner, and with such a welth of cordial friendship. I feel it is indeed necessary to remind myself that the greater the warmth of the personal regard you show me, the larger is the debt I owe to those who, without hope of fame, or hope of public honour. fought so gallantly under my command (Cheers). Therefore I make no excuse for using this present opportunity, to say a few words that have been in my mind ever since my remarks at the Royal Academy of Arts in London ten days ago. What I said then concerning thousands of brave men-many of them the possessors of the most coveted of military decorations-who today are seeking work and not finding it, made some little stir in the papers, and will probably be known to you. I hope that what I am about to here at St Andrews may be given a little publicity.

FINDING WORK FOR EX SERVICE MEN

In the first place, my speech at the Royal Academy dinner called forth a number of criticisms directed against the Appointments Dept of the Ministry of Labour. I don't think those criticism's were deserved, while on the other hand. I feel that in some cases at least, they were due to an imperfect knowledge of what the Appointments Dept has done, and is endeavouring to do. The continuance of such criticism can only result in the organisation falling into disrepute, among the very men whom it is designed to help. The object for which the Appointment's Dept exist are-firstly, to provide for professional and businessmen a register of vacancies, and of applicants for appointments: secondly to compile a list of professional and business training vacancies, and of young men who desire to be trained for a profession or business. As regards the first of these objects, it is obvious that it's success depends largely upon the goodwill and assistance of business and professional men, for unless they co-operate actively with the Dept, by making known to them what posts they have waiting to be filled, the first part of the work of the Dept falls to the ground. If employers throughout the country will notify the various district directors, or the Appointments Dept of any posts they may have to offer, they will be doing a very important service to the country. This I appeal most earnestly to do. (Cheers)

FIRST PREFERENCE FOR SERVICE MEN

It has been brought to my notice recently that there is a feeling abroad in some quarters that it is dangerous to employ discharged soldiers, because they have become addicted to deeds of violence-(laughter)- and might possibly, in moments of excitement and resentment , use violence against their employer. (Renewed laughter) I feel strongly, that no man has the right to express such opinions, and that they are a gross slander upon the most gallant Army that any nation has had the goos fortune to possess. (Cheers) I earnestly trust that no employer will allow himself to be influenced by considerations so unworthy, by a spirit so ungenerous, so un-British and in fact so thoroughly ridiculous. (Hear hear, and cheers) I cannot believe that it will influence many, and I hope that all who now carry on their profession, trade, or business as free men in a free land will remember to whom it is that they owe the very fact that they can do so. (Cheers) To my if there is any choice at all among candidates for any particular position, preference should be shown-other things being equal-to the man who did his duty to his country in the war. (Loud cheers) If employers will come forward with their vacancies ex service men will be encouraged to apply to the Dept for information and assitance and a very real step will have been taken towards the solving, in part at any rate, of a most difficult problem. The number of applications and offers of help that have come to me regarding the VC officer to whom I referred in London goes far to convince me that all that is wanted to ensure a very considerable measure of successfor the work of the Appointments Dept is greater publicity and a wider knowledge among both employers and ex service men of the nature of the task it is attempting. (Cheers)

WHAT THE DEPARTMENT HAS DONE

Let me refer briefly to the second, and not the least important branch of the Appointments Dept. Many men went out to the war either wholly untrained or only partly trained foe peace time occupation, while others must necessarily have dropped out of touch to some extent with the work they were doing before they entered the Army. Such men, as a rule, cannot be given paid work now for which they have no qualification except the desire to learn, yet they cannot be left unassisted. To meet their case, the Appointments Dept ask employers to notify them of all vacancies that they may have for training-in a word they are asked to take apprentices- and while the ex service man to whom such training vacancy has been given is learning his job, the Appointments Dept has power to make him a training grant amounting to a maximum of £60 per annum for fees, and something over £200 per annum for the maintenace of himself, and his family until such time as he is able to stand on his own two feet. (Cheers) There you have again a definite and practical scheme which, I feel convinced only needs the earnest and sympathetic co-operation of both employers and ex service men to enable it, if not to effect a complete cure for the difficulties of the transition period through which we are passing, at least to mitigate it's greatest hardships. (Hear hear) To show what has been already accomplished and what is yet needed, I am informed that the Department has already placed in appointments over 5,000 men and in training vacancies over 1,200. The Dept has on it's books some 13,000 names of persons wanting employment, some 2,000 vacant posts at the moment my information was given to me, and some 5,000 training vacancies. These are not great figures when the problem is so large, but they do give an indication of what is needed and what can be done. Therefore in this old and famous Scottish town, I venture to draw attention to them, in the hope that my words may help those to whom I owe so much. (Loud cheers)

Mike

[phil andrade]

From Countess Haig's book, more Haig humour "Once in 1916, when the king was in France, Haig gave a big luncheon party. No wine was drunk, and Douglas was much amused at Joffre's look of horror when he was offered the choice of lemonade or ginger beer. "

Mike

So he was a Dry Lunch, then !

But please let me say how much I appreciate these vignettes. Thank Goodness this thread wasn't closed down. I've learnt more about Haig the man from this thread in the past week or so than in all previous reading.

Thank you.

Phil (PJA)

[Guest]

Thanks Phil. Recommend the The Scotsman Archives Excellent search engine. I think quite a reasonable charge, and worth the money, which ever option you chosse. To find the articles I am posting, input below (or similar)

You should get this

Cheers Mike

[Steven Broomfield]

The "dry lunch" which excites you, Phil, is as much (I suspect) to do with the guest of honour. As I'm sure you know, His Majesty had foresworn alcohol for the duration of the war; one assumes the lemonade and ginger beer was out of respect for those wishes. And, before it excites you further, I suspect ginger beer is not used in the context of any rhyming slang.

Interestingly, I have just read Buchan's early novel (1898), John Burnet of Barns, and on page 86 of the B & W Publishing edition I noticed this passage

The hero is in Leyden, in Holland, and has met a large number of exiled Scots (the book is set in the period of the late 1600's, when James II is on the throne but the Covenanters are active. John Burnet is listing the Scots he meets:

"And these folk, too, were the noblest in the land, bearing the proudest names, descendants of warriors an statesmen - Halkets of Pitfirran ... And in all their wars they took their share - Scotts of Buccleugh , Haigs of Bemersyde, Erskines, ..."

So the Haigs of Bermersyde came of gallant fighting stock.

Interestingly, our eponymous hero also woos, and marries (sorry to give away the ending) , Marjory Veitch, daughter of the Laird of Dawyck!

I musy say that, as with all Buchan, it's a rattling good read

[Guest]

Here's another one for you Steven Click

Mike

[phil andrade]

These Scottish Covenanters, were they the guys who, allied to Cromwell and Fairfax, held the Royalists at bay at the Batltle of Marston Moor in 1644 ?

This is, again, based on schoolboy knolwedge of history, but if they were of Haig's provenance, I should think he would have been proud.

Phil (PJA)

[George Armstrong Custer]

So he was a Dry Lunch, then !

But please let me say how much I appreciate these vignettes. Thank Goodness this thread wasn't closed down. I've learnt more about Haig the man from this thread in the past week or so than in all previous reading.

Steve is absolutely spot on in that the sole reason for the lemonade and ginger beer was the King's decision to forswear alcohol at his table for the duration of the war. Haig enjoyed a drink, but drank only in moderation. Despite being a non-executive Director of the family whisky company, his favourite aperitif was a fine brandy. Charteris tells a tale of Haig's brandy bottle and the Prime Minister, H H 'Squiffy' Asquith, during a visit by the latter to GHQ in 1916. The story is a good example of Haig's dead-pan Scottish sense of humour - as well as his impatience with those displaying a lack of determination:

"The Prime Minister has been here again. [....] DH has some excellent old brandy, which, however, he only sends round the table once at each meal; after that it stands in solitary grandeur in front of him on the table. The Prime Minister obviously appreciated it very much and wished for more, but did not feel that he could ask for another glass. His method of achieving his aim was to move his glass a little nearer the bottle and then try and catch DH's eye and draw it down to his glass and then to the bottle. The glass advanced by stages as small as those of our attack, until, last of all, it was resting against the bottle; then, overcoming all his scruples, the Prime Minister, with a sweep of his arm, seized the bottle and poured himself out a glass."

Haig mischievously did not deign to display a response to Squiffy's shennanigans, and remarked drily to Charteris afterwards that "If he has not enough determination to ask for a glass of brandy when he wants it he should not be Prime Minister."

Daisy Warwick related another example of Haig's peculiarly Scottish brand of dead pan humour - English interlocutors on such occasions were never sure whether he was being serious or not:

"Douglas Haig, a Scot, was chary of words and cautious as only a Scot can be. I one chafed him by declaring that he solemnly counted to five before answering any question, including his opinion about the weather. 'Now that you call my attention to it, perhaps five is not enough. I will consider making it ten,' Haig replied, unmoved."

I've learnt more about Haig the man from this thread in the past week or so than in all previous reading.

As I've said, Haig has been peculiarly ill-served in this respect by his biographers to date - no-one has pulled together the extensive source material and incorporated it in a full scale portrait which gives us Haig as a fully rounded human being. This failure has provided ammunition for those partisans who would have us believe that Haig was a two-dimensional and emotionless butcher. Yet all of the material in this thread is readily available in print or in the archives, whilst myself and others have been placing examples of it it online, both on this forum and elsewhere, for years. To reference some of these which are germane to the themes of this thread:

Mike has usefully posted the text of Haig's 1919 speech at Cupar in Fife. He gave a string of speeches in Scotland in May of that year as his native country awarded him civic and academic honours. In 1935 his widow collected these together and published them in a book entitled 'A Scottish Tour' (a picture of the cover may be seen here: A Scottish Tour). It's an invaluable collection of Haig's thinking on a wide range of domestic and international issues in the immediate aftermath of the Great War - not least for his keynote Rectorial speech at the University of St Andrews. In that St Andrews speech he clearly sets out that he sees the British Empire's future role as helping other nations up to economic parity in what are today called the 'Tiger Economies', and the eventual transfer of self-determination to the constituent parts of the Empire. Haig contemptuously dismisses contemporary press hysteria about the 'Yellow Peril'. Some of the economic ideas he advances are, in fact, positively Keynsian in outlook. Part of the 1919 St Andrews speech has been quoted here, in the context of Haig's attitude towards the Chinese whom he'd observed working for the BEF on the Western Front: Haig and the Chinese. There's also an interesting extract from Haig's 1919 speech in Dundee, on the occasion of being given the Freedom of that City: Haig in Dundee. Copies of 'A Scottish Tour' appear on ebay from time to time, and are usually modestly priced.

For examples of just how extensive Haig's wartime diaries are, and how small a percentage of them have been published, this old thread may be of interest. It also looks at Haig the family man and his relationship with his children: Haig's Diary - version longue. Further evidence of Haig's children being in his thoughts as he travelled to and from the Western Front can be found in this article, which also illustrates the level of celebrity surrounding Haig at home and abroad - and his dry sense of humour is also evidenced in his aside about the probable merits of the American songsmith: The Marshal Haig March.

For another example of Haig's concern for those wounded and maimed, there is this account of his part in the story of the blinded New Zealand soldier, Clutha MacKenzie: Clutha MacKenzie.

George

[phil andrade]

This is the glaring ommission then, from the story of Haig....the personality aspect. There are so many dots to join up. If you can't do it, George, nobody can.

Mike's contribution has been very important, too.

I am stilled perplexed as to why this side of Haig has been so abandoned. Cromwell, Marlborough, Wellington, Monty, Slim...all these men bring an instant image to mind, in which the character of the person is prominent. Haig is evasive...or at least, he has been.

Phil (PJA)

[truthergw]

Could it be that these men, unlike Haig, did not have to undergo a relentless, posthumous campaign of slander? Plus, as George and I among others have repeatedly pointed out, the facts were there in the public domain. The books by his wife, his man servant and his minister are there to be read. If you do not read them that is your omission. There is a very recent book by his grandson, reviewed here on the forum. No campaign of secrecy there. We have a unique situation here. A British victor of a World War whose efforts and success were belittled and denied almost from the year he died. Axes were being ground by politicians and little men who saw a chance to flourish by climbing on the shoulders of great men.