Tunnel Trench

[WhiteStarLine]

14 hours ago, Blue Dragoon said:

Thought it ran through this area?

Yes it does:

[Blue Dragoon]

great spot, many thanks

On 26/08/2023 at 05:13, WhiteStarLine said:

Yes it does:

 

[Howard]

On 26/08/2023 at 05:13, WhiteStarLine said:

Yes it does:

 

 

If you look in TrenchMapper at that location, you can choose an aerial photo that shows Tunnel Trench. If you look in the same area on Google Earth and choose View->Historical Imagery, you can go back a few years and see crop marks for a fair bit of the trench, especially the March 2020 image. Crop marks are elusive and sometimes only show for a few days each year so you have to be lucky.

Howard

[Blue Dragoon]

1 hour ago, Howard said:

f you look in TrenchMapper at that location, you can choose an aerial photo that shows Tunnel Trench. If you look in the same area on Google Earth and choose View->Historical Imagery, you can go back a few years and see crop marks for a fair bit of the trench, especially the March 2020 image. Crop marks are elusive and sometimes only show for a few days each year so you have to be lucky.

Howard

Cheers Howard

 

So I'm zoned in.  I can clearly use the Trench map grids but is there a Trench map that shows the trenches in this 8th Battalion War Diary entry for 15th/16th June 1917 (particualrly trenches in U.7.d.)

 

. 

On the night 15/16^th June 1917 the battalion moved forward and took up positions in LINCOLN Trench U.12.a.and b. (Think they might mean T.12.a. and b.?) preparatory to the attack on TUNNEL TRENCH by the 12^th and 13^th NORTHUMBERLAND FUSILIERS on the morning of the 16^th.  Battalion Headquarters in the QUARRY at T.18.b.8.1.

Prior to the battalion moving off the enemy put up a very heavy barrage on the village of CROISILLES on the ground between the village and the front line and all approaches to the trenches.  This barrage commenced at 9.30pm and finished at 0.45 am 16^th June 1917.

Owing to the heaviness of the barrage two companies of the 13^th Northumberland Fusiliers were delayed in the march up to the front line and as a consequence when ‘C’ Company (John’s Company) arrived in BURG Trench to take up the position of counter-attacking company they received instructions to go forward at once and go over the left with the three companies 13^th Northumberland Fusiliers who were already in position, one company leaving them effectually delayed.

Owing to the congestion of the very narrow trenches Capt MATTHEWS experienced great difficulty in getting C Company into HUMBER TRENCH and finally led them from BURG Trench over the top to HUMBER TRENCH in time for the front platoon under Lt F. HAINES to go forward with the remainder of the line.  The second platoon under 2^nd Lt GREGORY was eventually able to go forward with the 2^nd wave.

The whole attack was held up on the enemy wire by an intense machine gun barrage the wire also had just been cut and it is ???? that their wire, hostile machine guns placed at intervals of only about twenty or thirty yards on TUNNEL Trench.

At 3.30am the attacking force was compelled to withdraw, this being twenty minutes after the zero hour 3.10am.

In connection with the engagement the following awards were made for gallantry: MILITARY MEDAL Cpl JW Briggs and Pte G Dyer both of C Company.

16^th June

On the afternoon of the 16^th the battalion handsover the front line from the 13^th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers. 

A Company was on the right from junction of CURRANT LANE and HUMBER TRENCH U.7.d.35.10 to junction PEAR LANE and HUMBER TRENCH U.7.d.25.45.

C Company on the centre from this point U.7.d.25.45.to junction of CHERRY LANE and HUMBER TRENCH U.7.d.2.6.

And B Company from U.7.d.2.6. to junction of HUMBER TRENCH and LUMP LANE U.7.d.15.90.

D company were in support in BURG TRENCH to the rear of HUMBER TRENCH on the night of the 16^th.

Battalion Headquarters were moved from the QUARRY T.18.b.8.1. to a deep dugout in PLUM LANE U.7.d.15.30.

 

 

 

[WhiteStarLine]

14 hours ago, Blue Dragoon said:

is there a Trench map that shows the trenches in this 8th Battalion War Diary entry for 15th/16th June 1917

Hi @Blue Dragoon, sadly we don't have one.  We just don't have some of the detailed maps showing dispositions and manoeuvre - either we don't have them or they don't show enough resolution when zoomed into.  The version of TrenchMapper being tested allows display of 20,000 or so verified trenches plus some lightweight tools to draw positions and overlay trench map / aerial extracts.  If you have a trench map from this time, or can prevail on the wizardry of @brianmorris547 (who can find any map from any epoch!) then we can fit this and the twin opacity sliders reveal other trenches / aerials / modern ground.

 

[Blue Dragoon]

9 hours ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Hi @Blue Dragoon, sadly we don't have one.  We just don't have some of the detailed maps showing dispositions and manoeuvre - either we don't have them or they don't show enough resolution when zoomed into.  The version of TrenchMapper being tested allows display of 20,000 or so verified trenches plus some lightweight tools to draw positions and overlay trench map / aerial extracts.  If you have a trench map from this time, or can prevail on the wizardry of @brianmorris547 (who can find any map from any epoch!) then we can fit this and the twin opacity sliders reveal other trenches / aerials / modern ground.

Crikey mate that is incredible!  Many thanks for your time, really grateful Edit:  Overwhelmed!  That is great geo referencing.  Amazing!!!!!

Edited 28 August , 2023 by Blue Dragoon

[Blue Dragoon]

Capt John Bredel Matthews MC.pdf

[brianmorris547]

This map, which I have cropped, is from the August 1917 WD of 21 Div HQ GS. Courtesy TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2132.

There are maps of the line from June onwards but the later ones have a bit more detail. I'll try and find some others. 

Brian

[Blue Dragoon]

8 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

This map, which I have cropped, is from the August 1917 WD of 21 Div HQ GS. Courtesy TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2132.

There are maps of the line from June onwards but the later ones have a bit more detail. I'll try and find some others. 

Brian

Wow!  Top spot Brian.  You guys are real ninjas!  Many thanks

[brianmorris547]

21 Div relieved 33 Div on 31/05/1917. This map is in the April 1917 WD of 33 Div HQ and shows T 18 and U 7 in a bit more detail. I did not crop it so if you go to the WD you can zoom in.

TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2406

Brian

[Blue Dragoon]

10 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

21 Div relieved 33 Div on 31/05/1917. This map is in the April 1917 WD of 33 Div HQ and shows T 18 and U 7 in a bit more detail. I did not crop it so if you go to the WD you can zoom in.

TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2406

great stuff Brian, many thanks for the pointers, really grateful

[Fattyowls]

Just to illustrate the maps above perhaps a veiw of the ground as it is today may assist? These were taken from the site of the feature called the Hump where the roads and tracks intersect. First up a view to roughly north west showing the ridge which had the Tunnel trench line running on its reverse slope with a line of concrete pill boxes on the crest.

Pete

Second the view roughly to the north showing the village of Fontaine and Monchy le Preux on the horizon.

[Fattyowls]

Third, the village of Fontaine.

Fourth swinging right to look roughly north east.

[Fattyowls]

Fifth, looking east towards Hendecourt.

The Fontaine-Bullecourt road runs along the change in the field colour and Bullecourt is just over the rise to the right.

Hope this helps.

 

[Blue Dragoon]

20 minutes ago, Fattyowls said:

Fifth, looking east towards Hendecourt.

amazing transformation, cheers