Firing an SMLE From the Hip

[SiegeGunner]

An example of what can be achieved with practice —

[MikB]

Are there any lessons to be drawn from Wild West style gunfights where the gunman draws and fires from the hip - making all due allowances for artistic licence? Is it possible that they really could be that accurate from the hip? Previous posts indicate that, with enough practice, they could.

Yes - see Siege Gunner's shotgun video. Thing is, it took that bloke at least 50k rounds to get that good. Now imagine you're trying to train hundreds of thousands of WW1 recruits for a big offensive in a few months' time. Now figure out how much difference to the course of the battle it'll make if your recruits can shoot even half as well as that. Now work out how much range capacity you'll need, and how many instructors. Compare that with the resource needed for building some motorised armoured boxes fitted with machine guns and light artillery. Perhaps we'll never know which would be the right path, but we know which one was taken.

Regards,

MikB

[Matthew]

Might it be that firing from the hip has more to do with the firers morale than with the targets health (or lack of it)! Certainly if I was advancing on an enemy position I'd like to think of something else! Having fired a CQB type of competition with my SMLE I found that just using the foresight when up close was enough to get me on a 'hun in the window' target and I'm a notoriously bad shot!

[nicburch]

Whilst in the tea rooms in la Boiselle at the weekend i noticed on the wall the remains of a SMLE with a shortened barrel described as being used in trench raids, were these produced in numbers or was this modified in the line?

nick

[Pete1052]

That sounds like a local modification, or something someone else did to the rifle after the war was over. A lot of military surplus arms sold by arms merchants are cut down to make them carbines or shotguns and some arms dealers invent fictitious legends about how they're some sort of rare and very desirable variation. After the American Civil War many .58- and .577-caliber rifle-muskets were thus modified to turn them into shotguns for farmers.

[truthergw]

I fired a 303 on the range often enough and qualified when I was in TA. I also fired a couple of shots with a .38 S&W. No useful comparison to be drawn, I'm afraid. As Mick says, practice makes perfect but I just cannot see a soldier in the trenches having the time or the inclination, never mind the ammunition and the resources to practice firing from the hip. I think spare time would be much more likely to be spent in an estaminet, eating or sleeping.

[jhill]

Whilst in the tea rooms in la Boiselle at the weekend i noticed on the wall the remains of a SMLE with a shortened barrel described as being used in trench raids, were these produced in numbers or was this modified in the line?

nick

Although I cannot comment on this example, there was a trend to cut down the barrels of rifles so as to increase the range of rifle grenades. Pierre Berton, in his generally useful book of "Vimy" praises "Whizzbang Johnstone", the commander of the 2nd Battalion, Canadian Mounted Rifles for their perfection. However, it may be that many bright lights had the same idea. This clip from a Canadian Brigade order in 1917 puts the kaybosh on the idea.

[4thGordons]

Whilst in the tea rooms in la Boiselle at the weekend i noticed on the wall the remains of a SMLE with a shortened barrel described as being used in trench raids, were these produced in numbers or was this modified in the line?

nick

There have been a couple of threads on this in the context of MINING operations when apparently cut down SMLEs were utilized. I suspect as a result of a surplus of rifles and a shortage of revolvers or pistols,

One is pictured in "Under Flanders Fields" IIRC. In this case these were certainly field modifications.

Chris

[SiegeGunner]

MikB rightly observes that time and resources were not available to teach 'off the shoulder' shooting to everyone. Even with practice, some people would never quite get it anyway, whereas others have a natural talent that does not require extensive practice. Some men would have acquired the skill through handling firearms in civilian life, others would have acquired instinctive hand/eye coordination from other activities, and some, with no previous experience, would discover that they could 'just do it'.

Interpreting 'from the hip' liberally, to mean anywhere between under the armpit to around the waistline, this is surely a natural 'carry' posture for a man making his way along an enemy trench, perhaps especially in the dark. Balancing the risk of being out-reached by an unseen enemy thrusting at him with extended rifle and bayonet against the risk of someone concealed to the side knocking his own extended rifle and bayonet up or down, I think an experienced infantryman would prefer to hold his rifle somewhat 'shorter', giving greater freedom of manoeuvre and a stable base from which to either fire the rifle or thrust with the bayonet.