Russian soldiers in Britain

[Moonraker]

I've just won on eBay five tiny photos (too small to reproduce here) taken at Lark Hill on Salisbury Plain during the war. One, dated April 10, 1916, shows a line of Russian soldiers. That month Colonel Novogrebelsky reported on trials carried out by Russian artillery at Lark Hill using British howitzers' 4.5in ammunition. He noted very weak destructive action of high explosive shell and unsatisfactory action of high explosive and time fuses. Britain's Ministry of Munitions indignantly asked 'are we to accept the casual report of a Russian Colonel as a significant condemnation of what has hitherto been regarded as one of the most serviceable and effective weapons supplied to our Armies?'

Were there many Russian troops in Britain during the war?

I have always dismissed stories of Russian soldiers arriving in Britain "with snow on their boots", but even a small detachment arriving at a port (a northern one perhaps)and travelling through the country (presumably by rail) must have been remarked on.

Moonraker

[centurion]

I've just won on eBay five tiny photos (too small to reproduce here) taken at Lark Hill on Salisbury Plain during the war. One, dated April 10, 1916, shows a line of Russian soldiers. That month Colonel Novogrebelsky reported on trials carried out by Russian artillery at Lark Hill using British howitzers' 4.5in ammunition. He noted very weak destructive action of high explosive shell and unsatisfactory action of high explosive and time fuses. Britain's Ministry of Munitions indignantly asked 'are we to accept the casual report of a Russian Colonel as a significant condemnation of what has hitherto been regarded as one of the most serviceable and effective weapons supplied to our Armies?'

Were there many Russian troops in Britain during the war?

I have always dismissed stories of Russian soldiers arriving in Britain "with snow on their boots", but even a small detachment arriving at a port (a northern one perhaps)and travelling through the country (presumably by rail) must have been remarked on.

Moonraker

There are a number of theories over the snow on their boots story. The one I find convincing (with actual names and dates) is one of Locker Lampsons RNAS NCOs in the armoured car squadron posing for publicity/propaganda photos before they left for Russia and going home to his London digs in a Russian uniform with artificial snow on his boots. on the underground. [This incident actually happened].

Genuine Russians in Britain would include a number of observers/liasion officers attached to the British army (with some Russian soldier/servants), military staff attached to the Russian embassy, a Russian purchasing mission and Russians being trained in British weapons to be shipped to Russia.

[Tom W.]

Were there many Russian troops in Britain during the war?

I have always dismissed stories of Russian soldiers arriving in Britain "with snow on their boots", but even a small detachment arriving at a port (a northern one perhaps)and travelling through the country (presumably by rail) must have been remarked on.

The Germans shipped Russian prisoners of war to Germany to work on roads in preparation of the Battle of Verdun. Hundreds of these prisoners escaped into France and were sent to Britain, where in April of 1916 some 300 were trained as flamethrower operators and then repatriated to Russia.

These are escaped Russian prisoners photographed in France and eventually sent to Britain. Note the Russian, German, and French uniforms.

[healdav]

The earliest mention of Russians in western Europe was, naturally, when a French flying officer somehow dropped a letter in Luxembourg giving the war situation and assuring the population that the French were coming. This was in September 1914.

Amongst other things he said that 10,000 Russians had arrived at Ostend.

No mention of snow.

The full document is in my book.

[Rob Connolly]

I've just won on eBay five tiny photos (too small to reproduce here) taken at Lark Hill on Salisbury Plain during the war. One, dated April 10, 1916, shows a line of Russian soldiers. That month Colonel Novogrebelsky reported on trials carried out by Russian artillery at Lark Hill using British howitzers' 4.5in ammunition. He noted very weak destructive action of high explosive shell and unsatisfactory action of high explosive and time fuses. Britain's Ministry of Munitions indignantly asked 'are we to accept the casual report of a Russian Colonel as a significant condemnation of what has hitherto been regarded as one of the most serviceable and effective weapons supplied to our Armies?'

Were there many Russian troops in Britain during the war?

I have always dismissed stories of Russian soldiers arriving in Britain "with snow on their boots", but even a small detachment arriving at a port (a northern one perhaps)and travelling through the country (presumably by rail) must have been remarked on.

Moonraker

Gospodin Novogrebelsky was entirely correct about artillery fuses; if the M.o.M. had been a little less jingoistic and a little more analytical then the Somme might have been a little different in outcome ...

[chrisharley9]

There is this officer buried at Brompton Cemetery

[Moonraker]

Gospodin Novogrebelsky was entirely correct a...

Rob

Do you know of the guy, then? I've Googled his name but came up with nothing. A few details of his responsibilities would be of interest.

Moonraker

[centurion]

That month Colonel Novogrebelsky reported on trials carried out by Russian artillery at Lark Hill using British howitzers' 4.5in ammunition.

Do you have any references/sources for these Russian trials? I've been trying to find some record of them.

[Moonraker]

National Archives MUN 5/125/1000/56: "Papers on trials carried out by Russian Artillery at Salisbury Plain using 4.5" Q.F. ammunition".

Moonraker

[mhurst]

There are a number of theories over the snow on their boots story. The one I find convincing (with actual names and dates) is one of Locker Lampsons RNAS NCOs in the armoured car squadron posing for publicity/propaganda photos before they left for Russia and going home to his London digs in a Russian uniform with artificial snow on his boots. on the underground. [This incident actually happened].

Genuine Russians in Britain would include a number of observers/liasion officers attached to the British army (with some Russian soldier/servants), military staff attached to the Russian embassy, a Russian purchasing mission and Russians being trained in British weapons to be shipped to Russia.

Do you know when the 'snow on their boots' story first appeared in Britain - was it in a newspaper article?

Melvin

[Moonraker]

Chaper Two of Myths & Legends of the First World War by James Hayward explores various possible sources. The story started in late August 1914. I prefer the explanation that Territorial units were moving through the country to embark for the East and one of their number was asked where he came from. "Ross-shire", he replied no doubt in an appropriate accent that prompted his audience to think he said "Russia",

Moonraker

[Moonraker]

Sensible article in the

Carmarthen Journal

(You may have to search through the page that comes up. I clicked on the right-hand column of optically-read (???) text, and did a Ctr-F for "Salisbury".)

Moonraker

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Well if the Carmarthen Journal says it's untrue, then that's the end of the matter.

The Journal always gets to the heart of the matter..... as this week's edition proves:

http://www.carmarthenjournal.co.uk/Ballot-paper-penis-counts-Tory-vote-Wales/story-26465149-detail/story.html

[trajan]

Well if the Carmarthen Journal says it's untrue, then that's the end of the matter.

The Journal always gets to the heart of the matter..... as this week's edition proves:

http://www.carmarthenjournal.co.uk/Ballot-paper-penis-counts-Tory-vote-Wales/story-26465149-detail/story.html

[James A Pratt III]

The Russian did receive I think 200 plus 4.5in howitzers. I think knox mentions it in his books on the Russian army. There were also a number of Russians in the 1917-18 period who were in England for pilot training.

[Moonraker]

More sniffiness between Russian and British artillery men on Salisbury Plain. I wonder if the Russians included Colonel Novogrebelsky? (I'm inclined to accept the 1916 date given in the official National Archives documents, whereas it's easy for a year to slip in personal reminiscences). The Russians had a point about British officers knowing "every inch of the Plain". A few years before, a British officer had made the same point about infantry and cavalry training on the Plain, despite it only having been established as a training area in the late 1890s.

[observer]

This topic has been posted here..the rumor started 1914...

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/285847-russians-in-england-story-1914/#comment-2944483