overseas service chevrons

[David B]

It is a pity the site won't work for some members, because it is a fantastic site for all military paraphenalia, structures, badges, etc etc. The only suggestion I have is that possibly your anti virus programs

may be blocking it, but I cannot see why as it is totally clean. Incidentally I am using IE9 and Norton antivirus - I do have FF set up on the computer as well as Chrome although I normally don't use the latter

two as I find IE9 sufficient for my needs.

Otherwise I have no suggestion to offer.

[David B]

I have changed over to FF and it will not pick up the digger history site either - says it cannot find it. Presumably a quirk of the program which I cannot explain as I am not too familiar with the FF setup. Back to IE.

[john jerome mcmanus]

G'day all,

Firstly, may I thank everyone who has replied to my original post.

I did not think that it would receive so many responses or debate.

For what it is worth, and maybe I should have specified this originally, I believe that my grandfather would have been entitled to receive three overseas chevrons:

one on departure;

one on the 12 month anniversary or completion of his first full year abroad;

and finally the third for the completion of his second year abroad.

I did not think that he would be eligible for one for 1918 as he did not complete a full year of service.

I would like further replies and will follow this post with interest.

Let the discussion continue.

Regards

Pop

(Sean McManus)

[Piorun]

You're right about the '18, Pop. The rest of us will continue to scrap. Cheers, Antony

[Muerrisch]

Count me out: I know what I know .... there is no way an army would award a "feel good" badge and then make a soldier serve another two years to get the second one. It flies in the face of logic, never mind the regulations. I am off on holiday now.

[Fromelles]

I'd always thought the issuing of the chevrons was a case of do the time to get the award, but now after carefully reading it I'd say it very much looks like it was the reverse, they'd qualify for the first chevron, from day one, by simply 'leaving their own country'.

The below link is the complete (Australian) Military Order (MO 397 of 24 Aug 18) introducing the 'Chevrons for Overseas Service'

MO 397/18

(3 x pages, just scroll)

For me paragraph 6 is the clincher -

'6. Chevrons of two colours -red and blue - have been approved. The first chevron, if earned on or before 31st December, 1914, will be red; if earned on or after 1st January, 1915, it will be blue'

If first you had to serve the 12 months before qualifying for a blue chevron then you'd have to serve through to 1st January 1916 at the earliest before you'd 'earn' it, any earlier then you'd be entitled to the red. The very earliest the 1914 men could qualify for a blue would be 4 Aug 15. So, to be able to earn it on the 1 Jan 15 it must be given from day one.

Well, that's the way I'm reading it. The question now is how was it put into practice? I've seen Australian service records that have notated the issuing of chevrons but haven't taken that much notice as to what periods they are issued for.

I'm sure there will be examples of both methods being implemented.

Dan

[RAF_Louvert]

.

Imagine that, government regulations being confusing and hard to follow. What are the odds.

For what it's worth, my interpretation of Australian MO 397, (as noted in the posted link), is that you were given your first stripe the day you left for the soiree, and for each aggregate period of twelve months following that date you were given another, (with up to 1 month's leave being counted as part of the aggregate 12 months). This means that, in essence, you look at the gap between each chevron as represeting a year of overseas service, not the chevron itself. Five chevrons equals four aggregate years of overseas service to God, King, and Country. This also makes sense when you consider the blokes with less than an aggregate year of overseas service under their belt: i.e. they got on the boat, went across to do their bit, were promptly shot and sent back with a blighty one, never to return to the trenches. They still get to sport a single chevron to show they went across.

Cheers!

Lou

.

[john jerome mcmanus]

3 or 4?

[Piorun]

3

[john jerome mcmanus]

3

I am in concert with you

pop

[RAF_Louvert]

.

3 is my vote as well.

Lou

.

[Fromelles]

However, I cannot quite reconcile this with my grandfather's case. He enlisted 27/10/16, embarked 11/5/17. The entry for 22/7/17 says RBAA Larkhill and the next line says 'One Blue Chevron 11/5/17'. The entry for 15/5/19 says 'Sapper Retd to Australia Devonport Eng 15/5/19 per ORONTES.

I have his three chevrons in front of me as I write, so maybe the partial last year counted as his third. He was also entitled for a red one for service with the ANMEF in New Guinea, but I suspect he dared not ask for it with so many Anzacs around! Particularly as there was an onboard mutiny on the troopship and he did not actually get to fight.

Cheers,

Bill

Bill,

Three looks to be correct

1st Chevron = 11 May 17 (Embarkation)

2nd Chevron = 11 May 18 (+ 12 mths)

3rd Chevron = 11 May 19 (+ 12 mths)

The fact he was in the UK for some of that time doesn't count against him as he comes from Australia.

I suspect 'the date of leaving their own country' (paragraph 6) should really refer to the when they embarked from the final Australian Port (e.g. Fremantle) and not their home port (e.g. Sydney), but I doubt it was taken into consideration as this level of detail isn't to be found on their Service Records.

Cheers,

Dan