alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Just thought I'd drop by and share snaps of my first rifle I acquired at the Baltimore Antiques Arms Show. The SMLE is my favorite rifle and I'd been planning to get one for a Tommy impression I wish to build using as much original equipment as possible. It is of 1917 origin and it is the Mk. III*. It was produced by Enfield and is stamped for the Short Lee Enfield and has the older cocking piece. This feature actually attracted me to the table it was at. It has its original barrel which was fairly clean upon purchase. The furniture was lacquered as well and cut for the long range volley sight dial. No markings on the stock disk. All serial numbers match 6253. Of interest were markings on the barrel TONS, England and U was stamped on the bolt head. Also (I'll take a few more pics) the markings FR are stamped on the right side of the outer band. I've taken it apart and cleaned the barrel further and gave the bolt and bolt rail a light greasing. It came with the original oilier and cleaning pull through brush (which I did NOT use). Also picked up some 15y/o Army surplus .303 to put through it. Going to see if she can keep a grouping or if I can keep a grouping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 The serial is actually N6254 - Enfield went through the entire alphabet in prefixes in 1917! (producing @640,000 rifles their peak year for production) The "England" is an old style export/import stamp (pre 1968 NFA) The TONS is part of the British Civilian proof marking (suggesting it went through the British gun trade) The whole mark includes the proof test 18tons per square inch IIRC the calibre.303 and case length (?)2.22 The U on the bolt head indicates "difference in specification" and I have never been absolutely sure what that means as it is so common one wonders if any were within specification! The cocking piece appears to have a BSA inspection stamp on it (script B ) suggesting it is a replacement How about an overall view! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 The serial is actually N6254 .... Chris Are you absolutely certain of that Chris .... maybe I'm just being pedantic, but aren't you forgetting something .....! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Are you absolutely certain of that Chris .... maybe I'm just being pedantic, but aren't you forgetting something .....! Cheers, S>S apparently I am adding 1! make that N6253! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Overall view is coming tomorrow. Thanks for the inspection Chris, I'm learning as much as I can and your knowledge is much appreciated. I suspected the caliber marking and TONS were civie market markings judging by precision of the stamping. So would it be reasonable to assume that it might have seen action in the later half of 1917-18? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 You knew that.. you were ..uhh....just testing us....yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 So would it be reasonable to assume that it might have seen action in the later half of 1917-18? Alex Assuming a uniform production rate N would fall in the middle of the year so that would be a reasonable assumption it seems to me. However it may have gone to a depot or a training unit or even into store for the rest of the war....impossible to tell IMHO - but if it was used "in action" then it that sounds like the right time-frame. Its increasingly rare to find all matching rifles so that is nice (is the forend numbered? - the numbers are usually stamped into the wood on the underside just behind the nosepiece - the lacquering of the wood may have obscured this. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 YES! N6253 just visible before the nose guard. btw I failed to mention in the original post the the wood was cut for the volley sight disk too.The butt also looks as if its seen quite a bit of hits on gravel, dirt, etc. The muzzle also reveals what seems to be extensive use as its no longer a perfect circle due to the exiting of the bullets. B80 is stamped on the upper left side of the trigger guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Had another quick look to find that B80 is also stamped on the barrel close to the breach. Its interesting considering that its also the original barrel N2653. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 .....The muzzle also reveals what seems to be extensive use as its no longer a perfect circle due to the exiting of the bullets. Alex, at the risk of stating the obvious, the muzzle will not be a "perfect" circle because of the rifling lands and grooves. It looks fairly normal to me but if there is any muzzle wear it is more likely to be "cord wear" caused by not drawing the pull-through straight out of the barrel. Exiting bullets will not cause wear as you describe. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Thanks Tony. I should have known better. I hadn't given thought to the fact that the rifling would continue right to muzzle. Ah well we're all entitled to foolishness at one point or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 I just wish it was only at ONE point or another in my case! Cheers TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Alex, looks like you've got yourself a very nice original rifle there, all matching numbers and seemingly the original barrel; I would imagine that is quite rare? Congratulations! Question for Tony and Chris: I do a bit of Full-bore (7.62mm) target shooting, and my understanding is that typical life expectancy for a (target) barrel is around 5000 rounds, so is it unusual for a SMLE or any old military rifle in shooting condition to still have like Alex's, what appears to be the original barrel? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 A target barrel has a life of 5,000 rounds only when you are looking for match grade accuracy. A military rifle would be expected to do at least 10,000 rounds and probably 20,000 in normal service. Even a Vickers barrel being used for full automatic fire was given a life of 5,000 rounds for overhead fire of friendly troops. However, given that these rifles are nearly 100 years old, most of them have been rebarrelled at least once. My own 1918 SMLE was rebarrelled at Lithgow in February 1944 and could have had another replacement barrel when it was overhauled in India in 1925 and 1938. Chris will be able to give you an idea of how many of his have been rebarrelled ...and he has shedloads of rifles! Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Chris will be able to give you an idea of how many of his have been rebarrelled ...and he has shedloads of rifles! Regards TonyE Hey now....just one, small shed. I have a new SMLE en route this week that is a bit of a milestone rifle.... Actually I am not sure my sample is very representative as I have tended to try and seek out matching "original rifles" - however I would suggest that even with this bias perhaps 20-30% of my Enfields have been rebarreled at some point in their life. If it is a comment on barrel life - my sense is a far higher proportion have been FTR'd at some point while maintaining the original barrel (which presumbably means it was considered sufficiently close to original spec. to not require replacement.) An all matching rifle really is the exception rather than the rule these days and to get one like yours with all matching numbers and stock is certainly a good find. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Hey now....just one, small shed. I have a new SMLE en route this week that is a bit of a milestone rifle.... Interesting; could it be the exceedingly rare No.1 MkIV or MkV? Can't wait to see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Interesting; could it be the exceedingly rare No.1 MkIV or MkV? Can't wait to see it! No, unfortunately not, although I don't think I could post those here (post war). I do actually have an incomplete No1 MkV which unfortunately someone chopped the wood up on - it is a long term restoration project probably destined to never be completed. This is only significant in term of my collection - nothing else - and I can post it here too! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Whilst the No.1 Mark V is scarce, I would not say that they are exceedingly rare. Although only about 20,000 were made for troop trials, they seem to turn up regularly, especially in the U.S. Here in the UK I know of two or three and saw one for sale only last week. I suspect the SMLE Mark IV Cond. is rarer (unless you mean the .22 SMLE Mark IV). Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 March , 2011 Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Its increasingly rare to find all matching rifles so that is nice (is the forend numbered? - the numbers are usually stamped into the wood on the underside just behind the nosepiece - the lacquering of the wood may have obscured this. Cheers Chris Hi Chris I agree entirely, having looked at quite a few SMLE's but last week I bought a very nice deactivated 1916 BSA III* to resell and whahay - all matching numbers from nosepiece to bolt! I'm keeping it. Even all the woodwork appears to be original. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 30 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2011 Alright pals, as promised I snapped some photos showing the entire rifle with assistance from Sgt. Edward T. Carlisle of the Manchesters. I've also included some close ups highlighting the details that were previously discussed. I'll start with the three close shots.. The wood is original. You can just barely make out N 6253 under the finish. I closely examined the wood for further marks and found this on the bottom of the small of the stock and lastly I found this and had previously mentioned these markings on the outer band.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 30 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2011 And now Sgt. Carlisle will give inspection Impressed with this arrival he removes the bolt with great difficulty. He's not sure if he will be able to perform the 'mad minute' has he had at La Cateau with these new models arriving from Enfield.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 31 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2011 Here's a close up of where the wood was cut for the volley disk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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