Bill Rogers Posted 24 February , 2011 Share Posted 24 February , 2011 Aurel, is this the place where we rented the bikes? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 24 February , 2011 Share Posted 24 February , 2011 Antony, As to Dingo ... He's nice ! And an excellent "sniffer". (And to avoid any confusion : he is not my dog, but from the Ypres Shelter (rescue ?) dog centre nearby, a companion that I take for a walk 3 or 4 afternoons a week). But a year or so ago, not far from the Weldadigheidsschool, in the bushes, and though he was on the leash, he snatched a ... small rabbit. Well, I will spare you the details. But it was painful. For the rabbit (physically). And also for me (psychologically), and even more for my wife, who still has ... nighmares... :-) Sorry for going off topic. So, back to business. The Flemish / Dutch word for "father" : "vader". Some people, like me (used to) address their father with that word too, but most address him as "pa". Of course when speaking about him you can mention him as "mijn pa" (equivalent of your "my dad".) Of course there may be other words to address him, with a diminutive form maybe (paatje, pake). Depending on how much more pocket money you want. Mother = moeder = ma. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 24 February , 2011 Share Posted 24 February , 2011 Bill, Yes, that's the place. Where we rented the bikes. And where your suffering began, to be continued for an hour or three or four. Have the wounds healed by now, after 5 months ? Can you sit again ? Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Rogers Posted 24 February , 2011 Share Posted 24 February , 2011 Aurel Yes, I can sit again, but my memory is still "very sore" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 24 February , 2011 Share Posted 24 February , 2011 By the way, I thought it would be a good idea to contact the person who started the question some months ago (link to Ask Away in Chris' posting # 24), to inform him about this topic. But it seems I cannot send a PM to member jrah60, and I cannot log in in Ask Away. Is there a way to contact him ? Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 24 February , 2011 Share Posted 24 February , 2011 Thank you, Aurel. I'm sorry about the rabbit - although the C.O. and I do enjoy rabbit pie and rabbit stew! My line of thinking was that, if "daad" was a Flemish form of "dad" and if "haat" was simply a mis-spelling of "hart", then "Hart weil daads" might have been "good Heart fathers", i.e., a slang form of Fathers of the {Sacred) Heart. "Bienfaisance" can be translated into English as "charity". "Bien" is usually translated into English as "well". So the whole things could simply have been a complete mix-up of Flemish/French/English mis-translation and mis-interpretation; "haat" for "hart", "weil" for "well", "daads" for "dad" OR, maybe, "staat". However, it really doesn't matter. I think your interpretation is better and it fits the facts. Cheers, Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 25 February , 2011 Share Posted 25 February , 2011 Antony, What you write makes sense. No doubt about that. Only this : what I wrote makes a little more sense. Also this (only a detail, and not relevant) : I have seen in the previous postings "weil" a couple of times. But on the monument (see my posting # 8) and in the opening posting is reads "well". And since this on topic, I now can afford to go a little off topic, re the rabbit. Dingo after the killing buried the rabbit. That was more than a year ago. Yesterday he found back the exact spot where he had buried it ! Amazing !!! Well, on topic again now : this "Haatswell Daads School" tickled my curiosity the first second that I saw it (because it was so un-Flemish, and also related to disappeared cemeteries, a favourite subject of mine). What made it a little special though is that the disfigured name was not in a handwritten letter or so, or a war diary, but on a monument ! I have always found the way Tommies mutilated our Flemish place names very amusing. (I'm sure you know the classical examples like White sheet, God wears velvet, Plugstreet, even Wipers). So I really could not resist. Looking forward to reading a new challenge. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 25 February , 2011 Share Posted 25 February , 2011 I have always found the way Tommies mutilated our Flemish place names very amusing. (I'm sure you know the classical examples like White sheet, God wears velvet, Plugstreet, even Wipers). So I really could not resist. God wears velvet? Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriaty Posted 25 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 25 February , 2011 Having set this hare (not Aurel's rabbit) running, I have had another look at the photograph of James' memorial stone at Castlemilk to see if it threw any light on this Haatswell Daads query. The inscription says "killed in battle" whereas the battalion diary of 8 November says "died of wounds" as does the entry in The Times of 20 November which, presumably, the family submitted. Times of 5 October 1914 says that he was wounded (The battalion diary of 14 September says he was wounded and that he re joined the battalion on 28 October) Times of 18 November says died in Paris of wounds received on 17 September during the Battle of the Aisne Times 20 November says died on 9 November at Ypres of wounds received in action same day. He is referred to as a Second Lieutenant 27 November 1914 gazetted as a Lieutenant The family memorial inscriptions do not have a hypen between the Stirling and Stuart, but the name is hypenated in The Times and London Gazette. Looking at the Scots Guards battalion diary for 8 November: Killed: Lieutenants RN Gipps and FA Monckton who were killed on 7 November are comemorated on the Menin Gate; Wounded: Lieutenant BW Smith (died of wounds), buried in Derbyshire; J Stirling Stuart commemorated on Menin Gate; Lieut JS Dyer was wounded, recovered but killed in July 1917 Missing: Lieutenant Douglas-Dick was was missing, according to the CWGC died between 8 and 11 November and is also on the Menin Gate. I dont know when the inscriptions were done on the family memorials in Castlemilk, they cover a period from 1474-2007, I suspect that James' may have been done some time after hence the Haatswell Daads and the "killed in battle" Moriaty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 25 February , 2011 Share Posted 25 February , 2011 Yes, "killed in battle" had a more romantic ring to it than "died of wounds". The military tended to use "killed in action", "died of wounds" or, sometimes, "died of wounds in action". Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 25 February , 2011 Share Posted 25 February , 2011 God wears velvet? Roel Godewaersvelde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 25 February , 2011 Share Posted 25 February , 2011 Godewaersvelde Thanks, Chris! Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 25 February , 2011 Share Posted 25 February , 2011 I think Chris's link to Ecole de Bienfaisance and Aurel's unravelling in Post #15 and the presence of a CCS clinches it for me... Add broad Scots dialect and a tinny phone connection and a telegram or other message could easily have been misheard or mis-transcribed into the foreign sounding location on the Memorial stone. Well unravelled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 26 February , 2011 Share Posted 26 February , 2011 Eh, Kevin; what's this "broad Scots" bit?! A commissioned chappie with a private inscription wouldn't talk like that . Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 26 February , 2011 Share Posted 26 February , 2011 A commissioned chappie with a private inscription wouldn't talk like that HE was dead!! So it would be someone else passing on the message, like the parlour game and ended up differently to what was intended.... Do try and keep up if you want your remarks to be funny!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 26 February , 2011 Share Posted 26 February , 2011 At a certain age, one tends to lag behind, Kevin . Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted 26 February , 2011 Share Posted 26 February , 2011 Should John S. see this, and still have the original postcard, maybe he can have a look with a magnifying glass if the name James Stirling-Stuart is visible on one of the crosses ? Aurel I can only make out one name and that is Pte J W Ogden. He was in the RAMC, Number 81036, and killed 26/09/1917. His memorial cross is the larger triangular shaped one in the centre of the picture. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 26 February , 2011 Share Posted 26 February , 2011 Thanks, John. Useful for my notes. Now I know that the cemetery was in use from (or before) beginning of Nov. 1914 till (after)end Sept. 1917. Probably not much later, as the first row on the postcard must be a row of latest graves. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted 26 February , 2011 Share Posted 26 February , 2011 Thanks, John. Useful for my notes. Now I know that the cemetery was in use from (or before) beginning of Nov. 1914 till (after)end Sept. 1917. Probably not much later, as the first row on the postcard must be a row of latest graves. Aurel Glad to be of some help Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Landy Posted 17 July , 2021 Share Posted 17 July , 2021 A beautiful memory of the place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 24 July , 2021 Share Posted 24 July , 2021 On 24/02/2011 at 11:52, Aurel Sercu said: The more I think about it, the more I think "Haatswell Daad School" it is a deformation of "Staatsweldadigheidsschool". Maybe someone misread handwritten "Staats" as "Haats" (St may look like H ?). And then "weldadigheidsschool" became "...well daads school", dropping the part (double suffix) "igheid", and separating the whole word in the wrong parts). Would it ever have been Het (or hets) Welda(digheids)school or would Het never been used like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 25 July , 2021 Share Posted 25 July , 2021 Neil, I don't think so. The definite article referring to "school" always is "De".(Also for the other noun in the name, Weldadigheid.) True, in some cases in our dialect it can be 't (short for Het"), but it's rather unusual, and very un-standard Dutch.) By the way, I saw that 10 years ago Moriaty wrote: I got the "Haatswell Daads School" details from the Castlemilk memorial stone photograph on the Scottish War Memorial Project site. Maybe I should try to go and find what the name of the school really looks like there ... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travers61 Posted 25 July , 2021 Share Posted 25 July , 2021 (edited) Just a few links about Lt James Stirling Stuart that have not been mentioned. Looks like the memorial photo posted in 2011 is from inside the Stirling-Stuart family vault at Carmunnock Church/Graveyard. https://www.chch.ox.ac.uk/fallen-alumni/lieutenant-james-stirling-stuart https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/search?firstname=james&middlename=&lastname=stirling+stuart&birthyear=&birthyearfilter=&deathyear=1914&deathyearfilter=&location=&locationId=&memorialid=&mcid=&linkedToName=&datefilter=&orderby=r James is also on the Carmunnock village war memorial commissioned by his father. https://www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk/memorial/71123/ Edited 25 July , 2021 by travers61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Landy Posted 2 August , 2021 Share Posted 2 August , 2021 It’s get more beautiful every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Landy Posted 2 August , 2021 Share Posted 2 August , 2021 Gets more beautiful Every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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