The siege of Kut-al-Amara 1915-1916

[trajan]

Living here I am naturally careful to comment on matters relating to the utterances of the Boshbakan (= head leader = president) of Turkey, but I must admit it would be useful in my work if my students knew a little more about their past when they left High School rather than all which happened after 1919/1923. (And if that was not enough, they get two more terms of the same stuff at university just to be certain they know it!) I happened to be in the antika pazari today, and Turks of my generation - so 50's-60's+ - were aware of the anniversary... There again, taking the wider perspective, I gather that things are not much better history-wise in the UK: and as for the US?

[SJ CLARK]

I was given a handwritten account of the surrender and the treatment the soldiers received. The soldier who wrote this account was a radio operator at the time of the surrender.

 

SJC

[trajan]

21 hours ago, SJ CLARK said:

I was given a handwritten account of the surrender and the treatment the soldiers received. The soldier who wrote this account was a radio operator at the time of the surrender.

 

SJC

 

That sounds exciting and interesting! Is it a relative? Have you transcribed it? As a radio operator he was perhaps quite privvy to many details that others would like to know!

 

Julian 

[charlie962]

his name wasn't Lowman by any chance ?

[SJ CLARK]

 

Sir,

 

His name is Goode, not Lowman.

Thanks for the reply

SJC

 

 

[michaeldr]

Remembering Kut by Dorina L, Neave (Arthur Barker. 12s. 6d.)

That price tells you that this was some time ago; the seven page book review appears in The Naval Review vol.XXV, No.4 of November 1937 – see http://www.naval-review.com/issues/1930s/1937-4.pdf#Page%3D175&View%3DFit  The profits from the book's sales were to go to helping the survivors.

Perhaps one to look out for at the library or in the second-hand lists, (though a little expensive today on ABE at $75.00 and upwards)

[seaJane]

Russell Braddon's The Siege includes quotations from both officers and other ranks via diaries and notebooks which were lent to him for the duration of his research. I'd be very interested to know where those diaries may now be, as he doesn't give many details of attribution.

 

Dorina Neave's is the one I haven't got round to affording yet! But if anyone is interested in my accumulated Kut reading list I shall collate it.

 

sJ

[David Filsell]

Seajane

I recall reading Braddon's book on Kut many years ago and thought well of it - his book on his time as a Japanese prisoner of war was equaly impressive with an hilarious espisode about his difficulty in supplying " a specimen" when he joined up in Australia.

Now almost forgotten he was a good journalist and commentator and an acerbic regular on Any Questions. 

I don't think the bibliography on Kut is a particularly large one  - has there been anything new published on Kut in more recent years?  I would certainly welcome a copy of your list.

Best regards

david

[charlie962]

Patrick Crowley's book Kut 1916 Courage and Failure in Iraq was published c 2009 and he quotes from Lady Neave's book

[seaJane]

David,

 

As well as Patrick Crowley's book Kut 1916 mentioned by Charlie above I have read:

• Begg, R. Campbell. Surgery on trestles: a saga of suffering and triumph. Norwich: Jarrold & Sons, 1967.
• Braddon, Russell. The siege. London: Jonathan Cape, 1969.
• Gunn, David. Sailor in the desert: the adventures of Phillip Gunn DSM, RN in the Mesopotamia campaign 1915. Barnsley: Pen and Sword Maritime, 2013.
• Holyoake, Arthur Valentine ; Transcribed and edited by Douglas Bridgewater. The road to Yozgad: my war 1914-1919. Brighton: Menin House, 2013.
• Jones, E.H. The road to En-Dor; being an account of how two prisoners of war at Yozgad in Turkey won their way to freedom. London: John Lane / The Bodley Head, 1920.
• Millar, Ronald. Kut: the death of an army. London: Secker & Warburg, 1969.
• Mousley, E.O. Secrets of a Kuttite. [reprint]. Naval and Military Press.
• Nunn, Vice-Admiral Wilfred ; New introduction by Sir Jeremy Greenstock. Tigris gunboats: the forgotten war in Iraq 1914-1917. London: Chatham Publishing, 2007 (orig. 1932).
• Sandes, E.W.C. In Kut and captivity with the Sixth Indian Division. London: John Murray, 1919.

 

I know this isn't everything - indeed the bibliography to Ronald Millar's book suggests there are still more contemporary accounts to read (I haven't got round to Conrad Cato's The Royal Navy in Mesopotamia, for example). But if anyone can think of a must-read, do let me know!

 

sJ

[charlie962]

on Archive .org   Bishop HCW    A Kut Prisoner .    he was an IARO subaltern captured at Kut and subsequently escaped from Kastamuni

[charlie962]

I've not read this yet but NMP have reprinted it   Other Ranks of Kut by Flt Sgt PW Long MM RAF   " The experiences of a British NCO made prisoner at Kut and his brutal treatment by the Turks in captivity. It makes for grim reading".

[seaJane]

Thanks Charlie. Don't know why I feel the need to read more, but I suppose that is the nature of GWF addiction...

[MaureenE]

There are a number of books available online about Kut, including some of those mentioned by seaJane, linked on the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Mesopotamia Campaign, section Historical books online

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Mesopotamia_Campaign#Historical_books_online

 

There are also some books linked on the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Prisoners of the Turks (First World War) 

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Prisoners_of_the_Turks_(First_World_War)

 

including  from the book mentioned by Charlie962: 

Sample chapters from Other Ranks of Kut by P. W. Long, M.M. Flight Sergeant R.A.F, 1938. Transcription of the Preface, Author’s Note, Chapter One and Chapter Six only, with details of the titles of the remaining chapters. saradistribution.com. The author was at the time Driver Percy Walter Long, 67528, 63rd Battery, R.F.A

 

Cheers

Maureen

[charlie962]

I haven't read a lot about this but I am left with a feeling that the 'other ranks' were badly let down by their officers after the surrender. I wonder whether the officers should have reacted more strongly when they became aware (or should have become aware) of the extreme level of neglect and maltreatment? And I am ignoring Townshend completely. His really was a special case!

[bob lembke]

This is from memory from several years ago but there was one officer captured at Kut who insisted in accompanying his men, rather than get a better grade of treatment. I have mentioned elsewhere, from German sources (I study the Turkish/German side mostly, as my father served as a volunteer in the Turkish Fifth Army in 1915), that German officers kept on seeing Townshend leading the high life in Istanbul, accompanied by Turkish officers, and they finally complained to the Turks that this public feting of Townshend was unseemly. (I remember some annoyance on the part of a GWF Pal when I said that, the individual feeling that "rank hath its privileges".)

 

In partial and reluctant defense of the poor treatment of the captured ORs, I am not sure if it was not much worse than the situation of Turkish ORs in the war, who were sometimes even marched to death. The logistical and staff work situation in the Turkish Army of the period was regrettable, and caused much misery to many.

[seaJane]

General Melliss, who travelled the route some days after the other officers as he had been recovering in hospital, insisted fervently on doing what he could for those other ranks he caught up with. I too recall the anecdote about the officer who insisted on travelling with his men, but as I recall he wasn't allowed to. I don't think the ORs can strictly said to have been let down by their officers, who I believe had no choice. 

 

Even given the fact that the Turkish ORs weren't well treated, what was meted out to the captives still seems extreme, although it depends which source you read; Braddon's is definitely the most sensational (by which I don't necessarily mean untrue), but even 'Kut 1916' describes some horrors. (And yes, Townsend's behaviour another matter entirely).

[David Filsell]

Thanks all, as ever, most helpful  - initially I'm going to find a copy of Braddon's s book on Abebooks. One of the problems with book reviewing is the little time it leaves me for 'personal' reading. Just made a start on the new two volume history of the Scots Guards in the Great War, I reckon I've got two weeks or more solid reading in that alone!

Regards

David

[seaJane]

This is Wikipedia on Melliss:

 

Transported upriver to Baghdad by steamship, Melliss remained in hospital and unable to travel as the survivors of the 6th Division were marched north toward Anatolia. When Melliss was well enough to travel, he followed the same route north. As he was a general, Melliss was allowed a traveling party and better than average supplies. Along the way, they encountered dead and dying enlisted men who had fallen behind one of the columns of British and Indian prisoners. Melliss took any survivors he found with him; at each stop he insisted that the men he had rescued from the desert be put into hospital.

Melliss spent his captivity at Broussa in northwestern Anatolia. While there, he repeatedly wrote letters to Enver Pasha detailing the sad state of the enlisted prisoners and demanding better treatment. Most of the British other ranks (1,755 out of 2,592) captured at Kut-al-Amara died in captivity.

 

David -

of the contemporary records I think I 'enjoyed' Mousley's Secrets of a Kuttite most, although The Road to En-Dor is an excellent read too.  I must catch up with Four fifty miles to freedom some time.

[David Filsell]

Bob,

As I have said before, Senior officers generally expected and received special treatment - rightly or wrongly.

The real question therefore the degree to which Townshend was aware of the treatment, who made the allegations, and whether he made any representations about it and if he  knew and did, or could do, nothing about it. If any  - second proofs and all that - of it is available, I am certainly unaware of it. Perhaps others 'know better'?

I ask this simply because mud sticks and the accusation is very common. Thus it is important to know both context and fact. 

For instance having read the new biography of Hunter Bunter, it's clear that a number of the long repeated accusations of his conduct were not contemporary, but made by officers who he got rid of and who had a grudge against him. Don't misunderstand, I am not saying he was perfect - he was certainly promoted far too early but it should be borne in mind that he doubted the Gallipoli adventure and expressed grave concern's about the attack of his division on the Somme and was recognized as an extremely good trainer of 'green' formations.

David  

[Dust Jacket Collector]

One of the most graphic accounts of the Garrisons sufferings is given in a little book of mine I've mentioned previously in the 'Rarest Book' thread.

"The Sufferings of the Kut Garrison on their march into Turkey as Prisoners of War" by Q.Mast. F. A. Harvey of the 2nd Dorsets. Privately printed in Ludgershall in 1923. Sadly the only other copy I can find is a photocopy in the IWM.

[seaJane]

1 hour ago, David Filsell said:

Bob,

The real question therefore the degree to which Townshend was aware of the treatment, who made the allegations, and whether he made any representations about it and if he  knew and did, or could do, nothing about it. If any  - second proofs and all that - of it is available, I am certainly unaware of it.

David  

David,

 

I can't recall having seen any evidence from the time that Townshend was aware of the bad treatment. As regards his behaviour generally, as before-mentioned Braddon hasn't a good word to say for him (though acknowledging that he was very popular with the men). Millar is somewhat more inclined to find good reasons for his behaviour given the difficult conditions (and sometimes people) he was working with. Having been reading more for my own interest than for research purposes I haven't made notes, but I can't say that I recall anything about his having been much concerned to dig beyond the assurances that the Turkish upper echelons gave him about conditions.

 

Once you get down to reading primary sources this may change and it may, for example, be illuminating to check Hansard online http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/ for contemporary responses.

 

Best regards,

 

sJ

[bob lembke]

I in no way want to sanitize the Turkish treatment of captured foes. I just wanted to point out the generally poor state of Turkish supplies and staff work as contributing factors. I generally only read primary sources, and of course writers on the Turkish/German side were not going to mention the occurrences of such treatment frequently. I do know of a number of instances in which German officers and other personnel intervened and improved the situation of Allied prisoners, often to the astonishment of the Turks.

 

My father told me that the Turkish troops, in matters of spirit and courage, were splendid soldiers, and he saw a lot of fighting during and after the Great War, and fought in two of the three most renowned German storm units, wounded four times. The Turks generally had great contempt of soldiers who ended up surrendering. Interestingly, they also associated headgear with a bill or brim with cowardice, and later in the war the Germans manufactured special versions of their Stalhelm for elite Turkish troops that omitted the usual steel rolled brim. This might even have been a factor.  

 

Despite these comments, which I hope are interesting, I do not know many specifics about the mistreatment of the Kut prisoners, which I am sure was excessive and severe. Not trying to excuse the events, just present some background factors. 

[seaJane]

I do appreciate that Bob, and indeed some of the memoirs express both admiration for the Turkish other ranks and astonishment at how badly they themselves were treated, as well as acknowledging kindnesses from German military in the area.

[seaJane]

If I remember rightly anger about bad treatment was particularly directed at the Arab population and (by some) at the Kurdish personnel of the Turkish army.

 

I would very much like to know what happened to the diaries and writings lent to Russell Braddon for his book - I presumehe returned them to their owners, but what happened to them later?