The siege of Kut-al-Amara 1915-1916

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Thanks for looking this up , i have also been spending a little more time on it and came up with Yarbaschi which is in the Amanus District which i believe is right at the end of the march route in Smyrna , so it looks like the chap i am looking up made it through the march and sadly lost his life shortly after on the 16th sep . Looks like there are several ways Yarbaschi is spelt.

its the first time i have read anything about Kut and the forced march its unbelievable how these men were treated.

Thanks again for your time

Pleased you were able to sort the name out, and here is a link to another account of the deprivations and misery these brave men endured.

http://www.winkleighheroes.co.uk/level3/kutdeathmarch.htm

Regards,

LF

[Guest Andrew Booth]

Hi ! My grandfather was one of the POWs that survived the march and the captivity , he was in the 2nd batt d company royal west kents.

They were put with the 18 brigade in Kut,

I'm trying to find out as much as I can about his captivity , it's really upsetting to read the terrible things they had to endure ,,

And there's not many people in the spot light as it were to bring this to there attention , I feel these brave men are almost forgotten about, so many tv program's about the Japanese ,/ Germans etc but never a mention of the Arabs and Turks ,

I have written to the BBC but no reply as yet, if anyone has any ideas on how to bring the kut POWs to the attention of any tv or papers , please help me in my quest

[Guest SpinningGill]

My Grandfather, who was in B Company, 1st/4th Hants, wrote an account of the battle of Kut-al-Amara for the Basra Times. Apparently he won a prize for it (or something similar). Does anyone know how I might get a copy?

His name was George Goodman.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

My Grandfather, who was in B Company, 1st/4th Hants, wrote an account of the battle of Kut-al-Amara for the Basra Times. Apparently he won a prize for it (or something similar). Does anyone know how I might get a copy?

His name was George Goodman.

Here is a link to a Cambridge archive which lists the ' Basrah Times ' as being in that archive, Basra being the English spelling of the name.

It would be well worth while contacting that archive, who could hold a copy of the Basrah Times containing your Grandfather's article.

Please, let is know if you find it.

http://www.archiveeditions.co.uk/titledetails.asp?tid=51

Regards,

LF

[fellop]

Hello to all,

I am looking at a man, 1829 [later re-numbered to 280535] Pte William Bond Royal Hampshire Regt. Service papers do not survive but MIC is okay. It shows Victory Medal, BWM and Indian General Service Medal with Clasp Afghanistan 1919.

An ex army friend of mine whose grandfather this is tells me he thinks he served 1/5th Bn.

The family story from my friend, it seems that he went to India and then at some time fought the Turks in Mesopotamia and then turns up in Afghanistan in 1919 during the 3rd Afghan war and earns the Indian General Service Medal with Clasp Afghanistan 1919.

From what I understand the 1/4th Bn went to Mesopotamia with some attachments but 1/5th stayed in India on Garrison duties until they moved to Afghanistan in May 1919 prior to returning to England.

Is it possible that William Bond was attached 1/4th Bn [from 1/5th Bn] to go to Mesopotamia then returns to 1/5th Bn in time to go to Afghanistan [3rd Afgan War] to qualify for Clasp 1919.

Somehow I am not happy about it though.

Any help or advice please.

regards to all

Peter

[MaureenE]

Without knowing anything about this particular regiment, I'd say it was possible. Many men were brought from Mesopotamia to India prior to being discharged. I think this may have been standard practice. Due to changes in the political/security situation in India, many of these men were denied permission to return home, and drafted, from April 1919 into Special Services Battalions.

I would think it quite possible that a man returning to India from Mesopotamia who was in one Battalion of a Regiment, when there was another Battalion of the same Regiment in India at the same time, could be posted to the latter battalion (even if he wanted to return to Britain)

Perhaps the regimental history may have some details. Naval and Military Press have a reprint edition of Royal Hampshire Regiment 1914-1918 by C.T. Atkinson, originally published 1952

http://www.naval-military-press.com/royal-hampshire-regiment.-1914-1918.html

The description states: Most of the action is, of course on the Western front, but the other theatres are not neglected as chapters describing the doings of the battalions engaged in those campaigns are slotted into the overall framework at the appropriate time.

Cheers

Maureen

[fellop]

Many thanks Maureen for the information.

Regards

Peter

[Guest Charlese]

My Great Uncle Leading Seaman Gilbert T G Wallis received a DSM for his part in the vain attempt to relieve Kut. What was the Navy doing there? He later in 1916 received an award by Admiral Morant from the Royal Humane Society for recusing a man from drowning in the Tyne.

In the early 1960s we had living with us at The Rectory (Windermere) the Rev'd Harold Spooner MC who was the Anglican Padre inside Kut throughout the siege and became a prisoner of the Turks after its surrender. Being an officer was offered a lift but declined and did the 600 miles march through the desert to the railhead with the men. The Turks reputation for treating prisoners was akin to that of the Japanese in the second war. Many prisoners died: he lost his mind because of the bad treatment. He was brought round by Tubby Clayton of Toc H. I hope the authorities will mark this siege and the sacrifice made, much by the Indian Army, and not let if be forgotten as it was at the time unlike by the more widely known also heroic campaign at Gallipoli; many still confuse the two. It was the longest siege ever suffered by the British Army.

[seaJane]

The Navy was on the Tigris. If you look in the Ships and Navies sub-forum you'll see, some way down, a thread of mine on COMET and Lt-Cdr Edgar Cookson, VC.

[MaureenE]

Some online books about the Navy in Mesopotamia.

• The Navy in Mesopotamia, 1914 to 1917 by Conrad Cato 1917 Archive.org
• World War I Naval Staff Monographs. Select Volume 4: Mesopotamia and the Persian Gulf to download a pdf. Published London July 1921. Royal Australian Navy website (Select Media Room/Publications/World War I Naval Staff Monographs). This publication is also available to read online at the Qatar Digital Library
• History of the Great War based on official documents: Naval Operations.Volumes I-III by Sir Julian Stafford Corbett, Volumes IV-V by Henry Newbolt. Published 1920-1931. Archive.org Volume III Includes Mesopotamia. Volume IV, includes Mesopotamia.

The above are entries on the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Mesopotamia Campaign, section Historical bools online.

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Mesopotamia_Campaign#Historical_books_online

Cheers

Maureen

[lancashire]

I am replying to this as we have a another Kut topic alive and I wish to be able to review it later without searching and if if any of the two books on it I am reading and find additional information on any of the unresolved I will post it.

[hazelclark]

There is really good info. here. Wonder if they could be merged?

H

[Gareth Davies]

100 years ago today Townshend surrendered having been besieged at Kut for 147 days. Some 13000 soldiers went into Turkish captivity.

I haven't heard a squeak on the radio about this anniversary, nor have I seen anything in the papers. Out of sight, out of mind?

[seaJane]

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/57430

[michaeldr]

Gareth,

Sad that the British may have forgotten this episode

but the Turks are also in two minds about it

A veil was drawn over this (apparently at the request of the Brits) back in 1952 when Turkey joined NATO

Now there seems to be a move to revive the memory

(see http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/marking-the-victory-against-the-brits.aspx?pageID=449&nID=98046&NewsCatID=511)

regards

Michael

[michaeldr]

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/57430

Jane,

Many thanks for pointing this out

regards

Michael

[trajan]

Sad that the British may have forgotten this episode ... but the Turks are also in two minds about it ... A veil was drawn over this (apparently at the request of the Brits) back in 1952 when Turkey joined NATO ... Now there seems to be a move to revive the memory

(see http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/marking-the-victory-against-the-brits.aspx?pageID=449&nID=98046&NewsCatID=511)

I have never seen any actual confirmation that it was ever celebrated on a regular basis over here, but I'll test my class this morning on their knowledge!

Julian

[trajan]

One out of ten knew that today was the anniversary of something to do with the GW but did not know exactly what and none had any idea of who Halil Pasha was, although they did know the name of his nephew!

[michaeldr]

none had any idea of who Halil Pasha was, although they did know the name of his nephew!

It's a pity that they don't know who Halil Pasha was,

though one can quite appreciate why some might consider him forgettable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halil_Kut

[trajan]

Not exactly forgettable, more damnable... Slightly OffTopic, as it were, but connected: my wife's family are from Kemah - resettled there from Iraq and other places after the GW - and when I visited Kemah a few years back I found that I was constantly being watched and even followed by people wherever I went (even into the Birahane!), thinking I was there because I was a descendant of the original population...

[kenf48]

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/57430

Well remembered Jane, and don't let anyone say Kipling is irrelevant!

99 years on his words echo current events as well as defining his respect for 'Tommy Atkins'

Ken

[charlie962]

Horrific treatment of the prisoners from Kut. A number of accounts by officers describe the harsh treatment they received. Sadly very few by ORs who suffered far worse.

70% of British ORs taken at Kut died in captivity, through 'deliberate' neglect (including medical, food and shelter) and from physical maltreatment of the most bestial nature.

I think over 30% of the Indian ORs also died.

A shameful episode. And seemingly hushed up at the time? But these numbers are still small in comparison to other populations that were being eliminated at the same time in that part of the world.

[Ghazala]

This came from the T E Lawrence Society today...

29th April

On this day in history.

After withstanding nearly five months under siege at Kut, on the River Tigris in Mesopotamia, General Charles Townshend surrendered to the Turkish commander Khalil Pasha on April 29, 1916.

What follows is Lawrence’s account of his involvement in the events of that day, written to his family on May 18 while sailing back to Cairo from Basra.

“We are at sea, somewhere off Aden, I suppose, so before it gets too late I am going to tell you something of what I saw in Mesopotamia …

“I only stayed three days in Basra, as the G.O.C. and all his staff were up at the front. The people at the base gave me some biscuits, ten loaves, ten tins of jam, ten tins of beef, and put me on board a little paddle steamer that had been a ferry on the Irrawaddy …

“At the front I found Headquarters living in a steamer with good awnings and a saloon! I stayed with them for about three weeks, while Kut fell … Colonel Beach, one of the Mesopotamian Staff, Aubrey Herbert (who was with us in Cairo) and myself were sent up to see the Turkish Commander in Chief, and arrange the release, if possible, of Townshend's wounded. From our front trenches we waved a white flag vigorously: then we scrambled out, and walked about half-way across the 500 yards of deep meadow-grass between our lines and the Turkish trenches. Turkish officers came out to meet us, and we explained what we wanted. They were tired of shooting, so kept us sitting there with our flag as a temporary truce, while they told Halil Pasha we were coming - and eventually in the early afternoon we were taken blind-folded through their lines and about ten miles Westward till within four miles of Kut to his Headquarters … He spoke French to us, and was very polite, but of course the cards were all in his hands, and we could not get much out of him. However he let about 1,000 wounded go without any condition but the release of as many Turks - which was all we could hope for.

“We spent the night in his camp, and they gave us a most excellent dinner in Turkish style - which was a novelty to Colonel Beach, but pleased Aubrey and myself. Next morning we looked at Kut in the distance, and then came back blindfolded as before … After that there was nothing for us to do, so the Headquarters ship turned round, and came down again to Basra. We got there about the 8th and I spent four or five days settling up things and then came away ...”

[Ghazala]

Thanks to the Imperial War Museum for the photo showing General Townshend, front row middle, seated next to Khalil Pasha, front right, following the surrender.

[michaeldr]

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has praised an Ottoman army victory over British forces a century ago, during World War I

see http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-history-does-not-start-with-war-of-independence-erdogan.aspx?pageID=238&nID=98554&NewsCatID=341

However, one cannot help but notice that his agenda here seems somewhat wider than the history of the Great War