Identify this light cannon?

[centurion]

Centurion,

we know!

Cnock

I'm puzzled. Why then did you quote the weapon if you already knew it couldn't be the one we are trying to identify?

[arie]

Tom W,

I found your picture in the book "Les canons de la victoire 1914-1918, tome 3, l'artillerie de côte et l'artillerie de tranchée" by Guy François.

The caption says "canon de 37 mm Mle 1885 TR (=tir rapide) sur un wagonnet à voie de 0,40 m".

Looks like TonyE in post 15 had the right answer all along....

Kind regards Arjen

ps it looks like Mr François holds the copyright to this picture.....

[centurion]

Tom W,

I found your picture in the book "Les canons de la victoire 1914-1918, tome 3, l'artillerie de côte et l'artillerie de tranchée" by Guy François.

The caption says "canon de 37 mm Mle 1885 TR (=tir rapide) sur un wagonnet à voie de 0,40 m".

Looks like TonyE in post 15 had the right answer all along....

Kind regards Arjen

ps it looks like Mr François holds the copyright to this picture.....

Except that the gun Tony referred to was not 37mm. Gruson built a 37mm cannon in 1885 for use in fortifications and it had the same kind of breech but I haven't been able to locate a photo.

[Tom W.]

Tom W,

I found your picture in the book "Les canons de la victoire 1914-1918, tome 3, l'artillerie de côte et l'artillerie de tranchée" by Guy François.

The caption says "canon de 37 mm Mle 1885 TR (=tir rapide) sur un wagonnet à voie de 0,40 m".

Looks like TonyE in post 15 had the right answer all along....

Kind regards Arjen

ps it looks like Mr François holds the copyright to this picture.....

Thanks very much, I appreciate your info.

By the way, the photo I used is from a WWI postcard. Since the copyright on the image has expired, Mr. François holds the copyright to his individual period photo but not all representations of the image itself.

The way copyright law works, once the image goes into the public domain, you can claim copyright on the individual period photo or postcard. I can't ask Mr. François to lend me his photo, make a copy of it, and use it in my book without his permission, but I can use a copy of the postcard I bought on eBay, which shows the same image.

Which is precisely what I'm going to do!

[centurion]

The gun is a trench modified 37mm Hotchkiss mLe 1885 Navy gun modified to Mle 1898 and then Mle 1901 standards. These were issued by the French Navy for use as trench guns and were normally just bolted to a MG cart or even a block of wood. The 37 MM Mle 1916 TR trench gun was not yet available (but used the same navy type ammo). The French anticipated the use of tanks and did not have a gun available to stop them, so the very jury rigged gun.

Here's one mounted on a wheeled carriage - not the same gun.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/adwyn/phot5305a.jpg

Can you produce any evidence that "The French anticipated the use of tanks" ?

[saintlo990]

Centurion,

we know!

Cnock

[centurion]

37 mm

Why are you repeating previous posts?

[centurion]

The gun is a trench modified 37mm Hotchkiss mLe 1885 Navy gun modified to Mle 1898 and then Mle 1901 standards. These were issued by the French Navy for use as trench guns and were normally just bolted to a MG cart or even a block of wood. The 37 MM Mle 1916 TR trench gun was not yet available (but used the same navy type ammo). The French anticipated the use of tanks and did not have a gun available to stop them, so the very jury rigged gun.

All the 37mm Hotchkiss guns of WW1 (including those used by the Russians and Germans) had a screw breech and not a falling block as in the header photo. There is one at Samur

[centurion]

Finally found a photo of a Gruson 37mm (and in German WW1 service) on the Axis site - see link http://i40.tinypic.com/14axyiu.jpg. Barrel and mount look identical to the header photo. The original guns were in use in coastal forts and had a falling breach. Later marketed as Krupp Gruson (after a hostile take over) as "galloper" guns on a light carriage (at least one used by the Afrikanners in the South African war).

[Robert Dunlop]

Gruson 37mm ... Barrel and mount look identical to the header photo.

I don't think so, based on other photographs that I have of the Gruson. The breech is different (not easily seen in the photograph that you referenced).

Robert

[centurion]

I don't think so, based on other photographs that I have of the Gruson. The breech is different (not easily seen in the photograph that you referenced).

Robert

So lets see it please

[saintlo990]

Here's one mounted on a wheeled carriage - not the same gun.

http://i2.photobucke...n/phot5305a.jpg

Can you produce any evidence that "The French anticipated the use of tanks" ?

The French Purchasing office ordered 150 Bethlehem Steel Co 37 mm SA landing guns in 1916 from the U.S.- using the Higher velocity 37 x 136 U.S. One Pounder AP Shell. After tests in 1918 proved that the 37 mm French Mle 1916 solid shot could penetrate German tank armor they returned the guns to Persingg who would not use them and returned them to the U.S. Circumstantial but interesting.

[saintlo990]

All the 37mm Hotchkiss guns of WW1 (including those used by the Russians and Germans) had a screw breech and not a falling block as in the header photo. There is one at Samur

The 37 mm TR Mle 1885 and Mle 1902 TUBE CANNON Used a Hotchkiss vert falling block.

The 37 mm Puteaux Mle 1916 used a Nordenfelt ocillating breech ( Mini "75")

The 3,7cm Rheinmetall m 1918 used a bayonet plug breech

the 37 mm Russian 1915 R used a very simple swinging semi screw breech

the 3,7 cm Austrian I.G. used a vertical falling block

the 3,7 cm Krupp L/14.5 Flack used a Borchard/Luger inverted togglebolt.

The 37mm Italian L/20 & L/23 AA used a Hotchkiss vertical falling block

the 37 mm Hotchkiss and Gruson Revolving cannon used a continuous feed /extraction bolt system

The 37 mm Maxim Pom Pom used a vert feed block

The 37 mm Vickers Mk III/IV used an inverted Maxim feed block

The 37 mm U.S Baldwin AC cannon did use an interuppted thread screw breech

The 37 mm French. SAMC used a vert falling block

[egbert]

I have seen such vehicles as early "simulators" for aircrews to improve hit accuracy. They were pushed along a short track next to/on their airfields and had to fire on a target while moving

[RodB]

Thanks very much, I appreciate your info.

By the way, the photo I used is from a WWI postcard. Since the copyright on the image has expired, Mr. François holds the copyright to his individual period photo but not all representations of the image itself.

The way copyright law works, once the image goes into the public domain, you can claim copyright on the individual period photo or postcard. I can't ask Mr. François to lend me his photo, make a copy of it, and use it in my book without his permission, but I can use a copy of the postcard I bought on eBay, which shows the same image.

Which is precisely what I'm going to do!

The way I understand copyright, once the photo is in the public domain, so are all reproductions of that photo - such as on postcards. The only test is - is the original photo still under copyright ? Usually that is 70 years after the death of the photographer. If not known, 70 years after publication. You can't create a new copyright in the photo by republishing the photo, but you do get up to 25 years copyright on the surrounding or superimposed text layout such as caption etc.