George John Pritchard - Uniform ID

[Verrico2009]

Thanks David - I've passed the details along. Sounds promising.

I believe my brother's got a copy of the marriage certificate and he's told me it just says "soldier", headgardener. I've not been researching GJP myself and he hasn't added the date of the wedding to the tree so all I know is it's definitely1917. I'll get the full date from him as soon as I can. I think you're right that this was his "best" outfit for the wedding.

[Old Owl]

LSGC - Bombardier G Pritchard (31586) RFA was awarded LSGC medal 1/1/1917.. on LSGC medal roll - this would seem to be him? No other likelys as far as I can see .. a Daniel Pritchard RGA in 1913..

david

I have to agree with you Headgardner, it looks as if Battiscombe has come up with the goods. Not an easy one, too many red-herrings along the way--I think the LSGC is the clincher. I suppose that next up is the QSA/IGS/?--any ideas? he would probably have had the same service number 31586. Can anyone check for his Boer War? or other service details--probably means a visit to Kew?

Good work Battiscombe!

[Old Owl]

Aha, thanks for that Louise

Now I'm almost certain it's the Tibet Medal instituted in 1905 he was awarded

Hi Andrew,

It could be? but not quite sure if he would have had enough service in to qualify for the LSGC, I think 18 years is the requirement and obviously war service counts as double--so it is possible, although probably a little on the tight side? We really need to know when his service began?

Any ideas?

Robert

[Verrico2009]

Thanks Robert - I'll do the Kew bit, as I owe him for the recent RHS look-up at LMA, so all pointers gratefully received.

[Old Owl]

Thanks Robert - I'll do the Kew bit, as I owe him for the recent RHS look-up at LMA, so all pointers gratefully received.

You're very welcome. I hope that you can trace his service record at Kew--I shall be very interested to know.

[Verrico2009]

Hope this is legible. It's from the register.

My brother thought he'd identified GJP on the 1901 census forms as a labourer living with his parents, but now thinks he may be wrong as it's possible GJP would have to have been in the army then to get the LS&GC, but he's been unable to find anyone else who could match. Any thoughts?

[sutton-in-craven]

Hi Robert, you guys are probably right about the first medal being the QSA, not sure why I've got a bee in my bonnet about it being the Tibet Medal (campaign 1903-04). It's the shadings in the ribbon that make me think that. Also the fact that Louise's brother thinks he served in India.

If he served in India from 1899 then he would have received the LSGC medal in 1917 (18 years as you say), possible one or two years less if it was the Tibet conflict he was involved in.

24 hours ago I placed an inquiry on British Medal Forum asking if anyone has the Tibet roll to check out whether this man was there or not, but unfortunately no response as of yet.

[headgardener]

My brother thought he'd identified GJP on the 1901 census forms as a labourer living with his parents, but now thinks he may be wrong as it's possible GJP would have to have been in the army then to get the LS&GC, but he's been unable to find anyone else who could match.

If he was 36 in 1917, then it's possible he joined up at about the age of 17 (give or take a year or 2) which would give us a date of enlistment of about 1898 or 99, and this would tie in very well with Boer war service. If he's wearing a QSA ribbon, then it's perfectly possible that he was serving abroad with the army in 1901. I'd say that it's unlikely that he'd already be out of the army within such a short space of time. Remember that he was listed on the MIC as George rather than George John, so that's the name that may appear on the census (if the census does cover troops on ships, 'in the field', or in the dominions).

Regarding the LS&GC, your man may well have been a reservist who was recalled to the colours at the outbreak of war, but it would only be his time with the colours (as opposed to his time with the Reserve) that would count towards the medal. So he may have had a period of a couple of years as a civvie prior to WW1. Lets say he served from about 1899 until 1911, then he had a couple of years in the reserve, and was recalled at the outbreak of war, I'd say it would match the award of an LS&GC at the end of 1916.

[Verrico2009]

1911 census:-

[Verrico2009]

Detail:-

[Edit: I just found an embarkation record dated 29 April 1902 for a "Pritchard 2LC", destination Bombay (sailing out of London). Could that be him? My brother's calculated he could just be the man living with his parents in 1901 if he got his skates on, given the doubling up for war service. If it's not him it throws his whole tree into confusion as he couldn't find anybody else who fitted the bill on the 1901 census.]

[sutton-in-craven]

This will be him Louise, I'll give the British Medals Forum another nudge today - there has to be a roll for the Tibet conflict.

[sutton-in-craven]

Hmm, looks like the Royal Artillery were not present at the Tibet conflict, so QSA it must be

[headgardener]

Hmm, looks like the Royal Artillery were not present at the Tibet conflict, so QSA it must be

......but only if this man was serving in SA between 1899 and 1902, which wouldn't explain the 'farm labourer' census return in May '01.

On the basis that 'common things occur commonly and rare things occur rarely' it is incredibly unlikely to be a Tibet medal (only a few hundred were awarded to British soldiers), but there has to be an incredibly slim possibility that he could have served with one of the mountain batteries who are mentioned in the article you've reproduced here. The QSA is the only real likelihood, but wouldn't match the census entry unless the man on the census isn't him, or unless he had a spell in the army in SA, came out due to injuries or sickness, and rejoined again afterwards (but that's all a bit convoluited, imo, and would as sick or wounded man be working as a farm labourer?).

Is it possible to clarify the census return? Could there have been more than one George Pritchard born around the same date? What about him being recorded as John Pritchard? Or not being recorded at all? (were all overseas, or 'en-route', soldiers listed in the '01 census?)

[Verrico2009]

Just a quick note to say that my brother's confirmed he's got to redo the tree as he's located the 1901 George Prichard in 1911, now married with family, so clearly not GJP! I'm sure he's scouring the returns to see if he can find another candidate.

So I guess that opens up GJP's army career quite widely? Currently on my way to London - and Kew is my first stop in the morning to see if I can find anything to help.

My brother's a little uneasy with the 1911 candidate given the age is slightly out, but from what David's said about the LS&GC award, I assume it must be him?

[Verrico2009]

PS - my brother's discounted the 1902 embarkation tecords as all officers - I read it as 2/Lc, but he believes it's 2/Lt with a cross on the t that appears as a dot slightly beyond it.

Edit: Oh dear - just spoken to him and realised that he based the description as Field Artillery on the 1911 census return but now seriously doubts that's the right man. In which case, I guess we're back to the generic "Artillery" - opening it wide up again...

[sutton-in-craven]

The QSA is the only real likelihood, but wouldn't match the census entry unless the man on the census isn't him, or unless he had a spell in the army in SA, came out due to injuries or sickness, and rejoined again afterwards

I've already checked a Boer war casualty book I have at home to see if GJP or JGP was wounded, slightly or severely. Only one Pritchard came up but it wasn't our man

[Verrico2009]

I've got two entries from findmypast's Boer War section.

Name: PRITCHARD, George

Rank: Gunner

Soldier number: 31586

Unit: 4 Battery Royal Field Artillery

Notes: [The National Archives WO100. The QSA and KSA campaign medal rolls.]

Age:

Literary references:

Medal roll (from National Archives WO100 series):

Roll 140

Page 0

Casualty:

Casualty details: Wounded on 31 Jul 1900 at Nr Potchefstroom (Official casualty roll location: Nr Potchefstroom)

Unit: 4 Battery Royal Field Artillery

Source: South African Field Force. JB Hayward & Sons

Gazetteer:

[2626: 2643-2705] a town in the South African Republic (Potchefstroom district; North West), 45 km north-west of Parys. The town and district furnished burghers for a commando (Cmdt A.P.J. Cronj

Name: PRITCHARD, G

Rank: Driver

Soldier number: 15108

Unit: 1 Ammunition Park Royal Field Artillery

Notes:

Age:

Literary references:

Medal roll (from National Archives WO100 series):

Roll 144

Page 0

The first is David's man and from what you say, there's no indication the other G Pritchard received the LS&GC. Is it worth me looking at the medal rolls next time I get to Kew?

I can't find an MIC for 15108 and so I wonder if this is the man my brother's been following on the 1911 census which could explain the discrepancy in age. If it's possible to get an age or dob for 31586 it may help prove this is GJP.

[battiscombe]

from a very brief look at service numbers a 31*** number looks right for an 1898 enlistment (1897 numbers seem to be in 1****-26*** range amongst old old soldiers in 1914).. I have several in 31*** range enlisted in 1898 - most on a 7+5 enlistment.. with of course the option to extend full-time service during that period. Checking the LSGC rolls back to 1908 I see no other likely candidates (a Daniel Pritchard 5 Coy RGA 1913). I am not sure where we are with ages but note that census was taken April and I have noted some rather 'loose' listing of ages ( and other details) in prewar census returns .. as indeed in enlistment papers.. I would note I can see no 2Lt G Pritchard in the 1903 Army List.. or was that a red herring? And the India link with 62nd Bty at Nowshera seems fine.. for post-Boer war period.. the 62nd Bty (for example) sailed to india from SA before the end of 1901

http://www.angloboerwar.com/imperial-units/610-royal-field-artillery-62nd-battery

david

[Verrico2009]

Many thanks, David. I know my brother will appreciate the explanation. He doesn't like this sort of discrepancy (though we've got it elsewhere in the family!). 1898 sounds good to me and would explain why we can't find him on the 1901 census (or the 1881 or 1891 at the moment!). We're assuming he's got the name of his father correctly, though I'm not sure this was always the case - in fact, no-one knew my grandmother's name when she died as recently as 1971 and her DC says one thing (wild guess based on what appeared to be initials) and her headstone is completely different (only because the marriage certificate came to light in the interim)! Our 91 year old uncle is adamant he never knew either of his parents' names...

[Verrico2009]

BTW - I meant the QSA medal rolls, but I imagine the note I found will be all there is.

[Verrico2009]

I would note I can see no 2Lt G Pritchard in the 1903 Army List.. or was that a red herring?

He definitely went to India via Japan in 1902, David - but I can find no indication of what regiment he was in. The image is here: List (he's the last entry).

[sutton-in-craven]

Our 91 year old uncle is adamant he never knew either of his parents' names...

Wow, your elderly uncle never knew the names of his parents? Sounds kind of unlikely somehow, perhaps there's a skeleton in the cupboard somewhere and he doesn't want people delving in to the past too much. I had an elderly aunt like that. She definitely knew more about her illigitimate father (my maternal grandfather) than she would ever mention.

Aside from that, what's the latest on G.J. Pritchard? Any further leads/developments?

[Verrico2009]

Believe it or not, Andrew - it's absolutely true! I'll email you separately.

On GJP we've hit a bit of a wall. But my brother made contact with the surviving daughter-in-law recently and wrote: "all she can remember is that GRP was discharged in 1917 and did serve in Africa". So that's good.

I'm currently exploring some trees that contain appropriate people in the hope that we'll get some light on it. Certainly haven't given up and the British Library is on my list for early in the New Year.

[battiscombe]

this passenger list includes officers from several regiments (Royal irish Rifles, Royal garrison artillery amongst them).. but i think not your man

david

[Verrico2009]

Thanks, David: can't see a link (?) but I'm sure you're right.