Overseas Chevrons - When were these issued?

[Muerrisch]

Getting back to my original question, the consensus of opinion seems to be that the issue of overseas chevrons came into effect as a result of an Army Order, on 4th Jan 1918 but that the actual awarding/issuing of these didn’t take place until after 4th August 1918.

Chevrons were then awarded, but only after August 4th 1918, one for each year from 1914 (red) up until and including 1919 (blue) making a possible total of 6 chevrons and these could be worn on uniforms up until 1922, after which year they had to be removed.

...............

No, I think you have the wrong end of the stick regarding periods to be served.

Given that the awarding order was written in December 1917 and issued in routine AOs in January 1918, it was clearly impossible for anyone except Dr Who to be wearing any before then.

But they were not for years 4 Aug 191x to 3 Aug 191[x+1], they were for issue with respect to landing date whenever that was, and the anniversary thereof. The red one was for any soldier landed before 1 Jan 1915.

I think I have the complete set of AOs regarding the initial award and the amendments, as photocopies.

Complete sets of AOs are at the National Archive, and the Libraries of Legal Deposit. Probably also NAM and IWM.

[SPotter]

John,

Army Orders are available for viewing at The National Archives as original documents (each about the size of a paperback book).

Regards

Steve

[Jayenn]

John,

Army Orders are available for viewing at The National Archives as original documents (each about the size of a paperback book).

Regards

Steve

Thanks Steve,

I'll make a note for the future!

John

[centurion]

I've got an odd contribution to this. A photo of my Grandfather, in the RDF, in uniform, shows him wearing overseas stripes (albeit on the wrong sleeve). However the SWB roll shows him as discharged sick 6/6/1917. What the blankety blank is going on?

[battiscombe]

I think this has got scrambled a bit - the actual awarding and wearing of the first stripes first took place in early 1918, soon after the Army order (not after 4th Aug 1918 .. that was just the first date one would/could be entitled to a 5th chevron). there are plenty of photos of chevrons being worn in spring 1918 ..

Getting back to my original question, the consensus of opinion seems to be that the issue of overseas chevrons came into effect as a result of an Army Order, on 4th Jan 1918 but that the actual awarding/issuing of these didn’t take place until after 4th August 1918.

Chevrons were then awarded, but only after August 4th 1918, one for each year from 1914 (red) up until and including 1919 (blue) making a possible total of 6 chevrons and these could be worn on uniforms up until 1922, after which year they had to be removed.

This would mean, as was pointed out, that 4 blue chevrons, on a soldier’s sleeve, could be for 1916, 1917, 1918, and 1919.

In my case, however, with my photograph, this doesn’t matter because my father, who appears in the photo, was demobbed in June 1919 – that is as long as the 1919 chevron wasn’t issued until August!

Thanks to you all for your answers, I think I now understand!

[Jayenn]

Hello Battiscombe,

I think this has got scrambled a bit - the actual awarding and wearing of the first stripes first took place in early 1918, soon after the Army order (not after 4th Aug 1918 .. that was just the first date one would/could be entitled to a 5th chevron). there are plenty of photos of chevrons being worn in spring 1918 ..

Thanks for your posting - what you say, changes the dating of my photograph, significantly.

But to (hopefully!) clear things up, am I right, then, in saying that if the most overseas chevrons visible on the sleeve of any man in my photo is four, then the most this tells me is that the photo could have been taken, at any time, from early 1918 and, even possibly, from January of that year?

But, if there is one man in the photo with five chevrons visible (and I don’t think there are), then it would have had to have been taken after 4th August, 1918?

To recap, what I’m trying to do is, using the overseas chevrons, see if I can narrow down the date when the photo was taken.

Any help is much appreciated!!!!

Regards

John

[centurion]

I think this has got scrambled a bit - the actual awarding and wearing of the first stripes first took place in early 1918, soon after the Army order (not after 4th Aug 1918 .. that was just the first date one would/could be entitled to a 5th chevron). there are plenty of photos of chevrons being worn in spring 1918 ..

Which is why I don't understand how my Grandfather discharged in June 1917 could be photographed wearing the things,

[Muerrisch]

at the risk of teaching egg-sucking:

if chevrons "wrong arm" might they be something else?

it is possible that he donned a photographer's prop post war .... no less a soldier than Frank Richards DCM MM RWF certainly did so, posing in a dubious jacket with DCM MM ..........

............. AND MONS STAR [not ribbon] WELL AFTER HE WAS DEMOBBED and well before any possibility of medal as such reaching him except by Tardis.

[centurion]

at the risk of teaching egg-sucking:

if chevrons "wrong arm" might they be something else?

it is possible that he donned a photographer's prop post war .... no less a soldier than Frank Richards DCM MM RWF certainly did so, posing in a dubious jacket with DCM MM ..........

............. AND MONS STAR [not ribbon] WELL AFTER HE WAS DEMOBBED and well before any possibility of medal as such reaching him except by Tardis.

Looks Kosher, he's got his RDF cap on as well. Can't think why he'd want to do it any way - by 1918 he was employed by the C of I as an organist. I've posted the photo before (before I knew his discharge date) - perhaps you can suggest what the chevrons are?

[Muerrisch]

I can see why you are mystified.

I too am thus!