Tank used to raise funds in Salisbury

[Chunkeroo]

This postcard was in my Grandmother's album. She was born in Salibury in 1901. Sadly there is no date or postmark on the postcard. Just as a matter of interest, she also saw the Kaiser riding his horse down Salisbury high street when she was a small child.

[centurion]

The photo appears to be the Mk IV female with the roof hatch that appeared at the Lord Mayors Show in 1917. This became a pretty stock photo and has been issued by many post card makers as one of the Tank Banks (which it wasn't as these were all male) -so it has 'masqueraded' as Julian and Egbert.

[edwin astill]

"she also saw the Kaiser riding his horse down Salisbury high street when she was a small child."

Reminds me of the story in "Wiltshire Folk" by Ethel Richardson regarding the splendidly named Mrs Brazilian Twine of Callow Hill:

"When warned before the Great War that there was some danger of a German invasion, she exclaimed most indignantly "If the Kayser comes to Callow Hill, I'll give 'im a vurry cool reception".

Edwin

[Moonraker]

I have a postcard of Tank 211 in Salisbury Market Place, with the annotation "Salisbury War Bond Week 1918 March 4-9th". The aim was to raise £52,500 from local people; in fact £165,204 was raised.

There's also a tale that the Kaiser was seen at prewar manoeuvres in Highworth.


Moonraker

[centurion]

That's most peculiar. 211 was a Female tank - all the 'Tank Banks' engaged at that time in fund raising were male! However I have seen postcards celebrating a Tank fund-raising week with the wrong tank on them (so for example there is one for Grimsby showing the Lord Mayor's show Female) This photo appears (often with some brushing out and things added in) on a number of cards for different places and is the one on the card in the OP. I suspect Post Card manufacturers had some stock photos and, correctly, assumed that the average punter wouldn't recognise the difference.

Is it possible to see the card you have?

[Moonraker]

Happily I posted a scan of the card in question five years ago and, even more happily, was able to locate it using "Search".

see here

Moonraker

[centurion]

I think that's probably Salisbury's presentation tank rather than the tank bank. A towns tank bank and its presentation tank have often been confused, especially in later accounts in local papers and in the memories of the elderly. This has certainly been the case in accounts of Luton, Merthyr Tydfil, Walsall, and Worcester's tanks

Edit it looks as if its parked in front of the war memorial - a bit premature if this was there in March 1918

[Sidearm]

I believe Mark IV Female 211 was the presentation tank to Salisbury. The six Tank Bank tanks were very busy in the week of 4 - 9 March 1918 but all of them were in London. Perhaps Salisbury organised it's own Tank Bank event, maybe with a mock tank, as it seems did many towns.

Gwyn

[centurion]

Here is the original of the post card in the OP

As one can see the background has been brushed out in the OP version. This photo (sometimes with a policeman pasted in (with paste)) appears on a number of towns Tank week commemorative post card

[centurion]

I believe Mark IV Female 211 was the presentation tank to Salisbury. The six Tank Bank tanks were very busy in the week of 4 - 9 March 1918 but all of them were in London. Perhaps Salisbury organised it's own Tank Bank event, maybe with a mock tank, as it seems did many towns.

Gwyn

Somewhere I've seen a note to the effect that Salisbury was lent a tank by a nearby Tank Corp unit. If they were preparing to go to France it could well have been a Mk V

Do you know which towns used a mock tank - I can think of only one - in Scotland

[centurion]

There's also a tale that the Kaiser was seen at prewar manoeuvres in Highworth.

With a rather well known escort?

[Moonraker]

I stand corrected. A few weeks ago I started a thread on "trust not local historians" and here's a good example of one (me)not knowing much about tanks and not thinking Salisbury might have had a presentation tank as well as hosting a Tank Week. The presentation must have taken place after February 12, 1921, when the war memorial was unveiled. I've looked at Salisbury newspapers only up to the end of 1920, which seemed a reasonable cut-off date for my researches into the Great War.

And Chunkeroo's grandmother's confusion over the tank is another example of the need to be very careful with contemporary postcard messages and letters.

Moonraker

[tanks3]

Tonypandy had a mock tank - Julian Junior

Tanks3

[centurion]

OK two (don't count the Blackpool tram conversion as this was a private venture to ferry holiday makers along to a sort of Trenches theme park and any funds it raised went into private pockets) . The countries that had many dummy tanks for fund raising were Australia and the USA.

[Chunkeroo]

It was my confusion rather than my grandmother's. I found the postcard after she'd died and just assumed. Bad girl!

[Sidearm]

Re mock tanks - Pembroke Dock was another one. But I'm not going to be trapped into providing a long list of them to unnecessarily justify my earlier statement, which I deliberately sprinkled with "perhaps", "maybe" and "it seems"!

Gwyn

[centurion]

Re mock tanks - Pembroke Dock was another one. But I'm not going to be trapped into providing a long list of them to unnecessarily justify my earlier statement, which I deliberately sprinkled with "perhaps", "maybe" and "it seems"!

Gwyn

Not sure Pembroke's was a mock. The photo I have of Pembroke Docks "Gun Week" (not Tank Week) shows a tank and a blimp. Tank looks kosher but its a small image - do you have further evidence?

[ph0ebus]

OK two (don't count the Blackpool tram conversion as this was a private venture to ferry holiday makers along to a sort of Trenches theme park and any funds it raised went into private pockets) . The countries that had many dummy tanks for fund raising were Australia and the USA.

Trenches theme park? Yikes. I can only imagine the reception an idea like that would receive these days.

-Daniel

[centurion]

Trenches theme park? Yikes. I can only imagine the reception an idea like that would receive these days.

Went down well in Blackpool. Contained trenches you could wander through with the sounds of artillery and machine guns and various other flashes and bangs. Lots of paying visitors. Another one was built in Manchester (close to the current Picadilly) but went down like a lead Zeppelin and closed within a week. An attempt to set one up in Central Park New York never got off the ground there was so much opposition. At the Chicago Exposition in 1918 a complete battlefield was built and waves of troops went over the top accompanied by a tank every day for a week. A similar set up was created in Los Angeles

As Cupid Stunt would have said "all done in the best possible taste"

[Sidearm]

Not sure Pembroke's was a mock. The photo I have of Pembroke Docks "Gun Week" (not Tank Week) shows a tank and a blimp. Tank looks kosher but its a small image - do you have further evidence?

Centurion

To my knowledge there never was a WW1 tank, mock or otherwise, in Pembroke. There was a mock tank displayed in Albion Square, Pembroke Dock. The photo I've seen in several local history books shows that without a shadow of doubt the tank was a mock up. It's the right shape and has features well represented, but it is just not right. I trust my judgement on this - after studying the things for 35 years or whatever I think I know what a tank looks like by now.

The blimp in your photo may be from RNAS Pembroke (later RAF Carew Cheriton).

I had not intended to get drawn into a debate about mock tanks as they're of no interest to me whatever. All I was saying was that it seems to me that many tanks in Britain created their own. If it seems to you that few towns in Britain did so, then that's all right by me. I feel no need to debate the point.

Gwyn

[Moonraker]

Phew!

Three cards of the tank in Salisbury have just gone on eBay for £263.97, with

the best one

going for £101.99. That's the highest price by far I've seen for a "military Wiltshire" postcard of the Great War period. And no, my bids came nowhere near those that won.

Moonraker

[Stoppage Drill]

Bell and Crown still there !

[Sidearm]

Phew!

Three cards of the tank in Salisbury have just gone on eBay for £263.97, with

the best one

going for £101.99. That's the highest price by far I've seen for a "military Wiltshire" postcard of the Great War period. And no, my bids came nowhere near those that won.

Moonraker

Good grief. More money than sense. I thought these cards nothing special, from a tank enthusiast's point of view, in that they told me nothing new.

Gwyn

[Moonraker]

Ah, but from the viewpoint of a collector of "military Wiltshire" or of "Salisbury" ...

But the prices they fetched were double what I would have expected. The previous high prices for "military Wiltshire" postcards that I'm aware of were around £70 each for railway scenes at Ludgershall Station ("The King's Train") and Sutton Veny Camp (locomotive and wagons), which appealed to railway enthusiasts (who pay £25 to £35 for PCs of "empty" railway stations).

Moonraker

[centurion]

I assume that this is Salisbury's presentation tank and not the tank bank. If it is a tank bank fund raiser then as a female tank it is somewhat unusual if not to say unique.