Is this suicide after Bloody Sunday verifiable?

[Dez]

corisande

You might find it interesting that the two men who identified H.E. Spenle's body at the inquest, were both Temporary Cadets in "F" Company of the Auxiliary Division. Lieutenant A.C.C. Farmer was no. 852 and 2/Lieutenant B.H. Emery was no. 699.

Dez

[corisande]

My thanks for the various replies to this thread. I have been away on holiday and am now catching up with my various threads

The thing that still worries me with Spenle is "did he really die or not"

Yes I know there is an Irish Death Cert, and I now know that the two men who identified the body were F Coy ADRIC (!!)

I am still left with the odd bits on his Service record, in particular

30 Sept 1921 Relinquished commission under AO 166/21 as amended by AO 332/21 retaining the rank of Lieutenant (LG 18/12/21)

Given that he is down as shooting himself a year earlier ??

[mhifle]

Hi,

Could this be his father.

Regards Mark

[mhifle]

2

[corisande]

Mark

Thanks for that.

I don't think it could have been his father - I know his father was aged 46 in 1901 census.

But given probate was in London, I would think that it is likely to have been a brother or other relative of Spenle's own sort of age.

[corisande]

I often reach illogical facts in researching the British soldiers i Ireland and I have found another one with Spenle. Quite odd how he made a voyage to the New Hebrides for 6 months whilst newly married (but without his wife) and came back 6 months later.What on earth was he doing on His Majesty's behalf in the New Hebrides?

1919 Aug 22. 12th Bn., London Regt.—Lt: H. E. Spenle is restored to the establishment

1919 Nov 27 1919 Army List 12th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (The Rangers) Lieutenant Spenle H E

1919 Oct/Dec Marriage of Henry E Spenle to Sybil O G Schanblin at Brentford vol 3a, p21 (she appears to have been born Lancashire 1895)

1919 Dec 9 New York to New Hebrides (but crossed out)

1919 Dec 28 Passes through New York . Describes himself as a student.in transit to New Hebrides.

1920 May 18 A man called Spenle from Noumea to Sydney, Australia on SS Pacifique

1920 Nov 21 Commits suicide in his office in Dublin Castle.

1921 Sep 30 relinquishes his commission

[mhifle]

Hi,

In 1906,France and the United Kingdom agreed to administer the islands jointly. Called the British-French Condominium, it was a unique form of government, with separate governmental systems that came together only in a joint court. The condominium's authority was extended in the Anglo-French Protocol of 1914, formally ratified in 1922.

The condominium was called the "Pandemonium" because of the duplication of laws, police forces, prisons, currencies, education and health systems.

A book called 'Vanuatu' by Jocelyn Harewood and Michelle Bennett, makes this reference to the 1920s on the Islands: "Drunken plantation owners used to gamble... using the `years of labour' of their Melanesian workers as currency. Islanders used to be lined up against the wall, at the mercy of their employers' dice. Long after America's Wild West was tamed, Vila was the scene of the occasional gunfight and public guillotining."

There was some Anglo French Rivalry at this time.

Anglo French Rivalry

Regards Mark

[corisande]

Thanks Mark

It would appear that the British Government sent him there (a serving officer, and though just married did not bring his wife) as he was bi-lingual in English and French.

It looks as if the New Hebrides was a mess, but difficult to know what his job was. He must have spent about three months there - had to get to west coast USA then by ship to New Hebrides, then by ship to Australia

[mhifle]

Hi,

Here is a link to the New Hebrides Order, 1922, annexing protocol between Britain and France respecting New Hebrides, August 6, 1914

Protocol 1922

Regards Mark

[corisande]

Lesson for myself here - I did not read the whole of the ships manifest - there was more on the next page. The second trip he paid himself he says, but the first one crossed out, he says his father paid.The address of his father in Epinal is the same as on Henry Spenle's enlistment papers.

But more interestingly gives where he was going in New Hebrides (Efate and Vate are the same place)

But I cannot find any references to his intended hosts or the place they lived

However on the manifest of the Pacifique there is a woman called "Mrs Klehm"

1920 May 18 A man called Spenle from Noumea to Sydney, Australia on SS Pacifique

[corisande]

And I have now established that the Klehm's were a fairly established part of New Hebridean life - Klehm Hill still exists just where Spenle was going to see Mrs Klehm

Beats me though why he would have gone round the world to "rescue" Mrs Klehm. I loose their trail after they arrive in Sydney, Australia on 18 May 1920, until Spenle appears in Dublin Castle with a bullet in his head on 21 Nov 1920

[mhifle]

The Times, Thursday, Nov 15, 1917; pg. 4; Issue 41636; col A

The London Gazette. Supplement, Nov. 14., War Office, Nov. 14.

Regards Mark

[corisande]

Thanks Mark

He seems to have been on "Special Appointments" of various sorts from early 1917 .

My current take on him is here

The "Mrs Klehm" that he goes to New Hebrides to rescue must be "Aunt" being the word that I think is crossed out above.

He cannot have been back long in Britain from New Hebrides (must have been about Jul 1920 (given arrived Sydney in mid May), but I cannot find a passenger arrival. And he was in ADRIC by Sept 1920 and has apparently shot himself 2 months later.

[ProspectRoad2021]

I don't know whether this is relevant, however, it's not a common name. A Harold Spenle appears on the Manchester Grammar School roll of honour:

Spenle, Harold, Despatch Rider and Interpreter, Royal Flying Corps

Hope this helps

Pete

[corisande]

As you say, it is not a common name.

This man Henry E Spenle was certainly educated at Manchester Grammar School. His brother was Charles D Spenle. I have not come across a "Harold Spenle", does their roll of honour say anything other than "Dispatch Rider and Interpreter, Royal Flying Corps"?

[ProspectRoad2021]

As you say, it is not a common name.

This man Henry E Spenle was certainly educated at Manchester Grammar School. His brother was Charles D Spenle. I have not come across a "Harold Spenle", does their roll of honour say anything other than "Dispatch Rider and Interpreter, Royal Flying Corps"?

Unfortunately, that's all it says. You can find the roll of honour on the below link:

http://www.archive.org/stream/lancashirebiogra00lanc/lancashirebiogra00lanc_djvu.txt

Cheers

Pete

[corisande]

OK, thanks for the reference

[vividvanuatu]

A warm good evening from Vanuatu ( New Hebrides )

I have just joined the forum and could not but notice your posts on the New Hebrides.

Having lived in Port Vila for a number of years I have visited the local cemetery on a number of occasions.

I am sure there is an old grave in there with the name of Spenle on it.

At present i am on the island of Espiritu Santo but next time I am on Efate I will check it out for you.

[corisande]

Welcome to the forum Vividvanuatu

I would certainly be interested in any Spenle grave at Port Vila. What I have is

1919 Dec 28 Spenle passes through New York . Describes himself as a student.in transit to New Hebrides.His stated intention is to visit his Aunt, Mrs K Klehm at Faureville Mele, Vate (same as Fate) Island in the New Hebrides. This has to be his father's sister (his mother was English, and one assumes that if she had married a Mr Klehm, it would have been in England, and there is not a record)

1920 May 18 A man called Spenle from Noumea to Sydney, Australia on SS Pacifique. Also on the ship is a "Mrs Klehm" . There is still a Klehm Hill near Mele, Mele being a few miles west of Port Vila.

Coincidently I just happened to be on Espiritu Santo (as one does) about two weeks ago on "Silver Explorer". An interesting part of the world with a lot of history!

[PFF]

http://www.cairogang.com/soldiers-killed/spenle/spenle-suicide.html

[corisande]

That is my site