Uniform identification please

[AnGemEngland]

I am a new member so I hope I do this correctly

I have a photo of my grandfather, Henry Hindle with his wife Alice. Unfortunately, this is the only photo I have of him

As he died in 1930 I assume this uniform is of the Great War but can find no information regarding regiment etc

I can see on his left sleeve a scroll type pattern with 4 chevrons above and what looks like two flags crossed over

If anyone can give me any clues regarding this uniform I would be very grateful as it will give me some hope of finding more information about him. I believe he was living in Liverpool in 1913-14

Thank you for looking

Anne

[Rusty2727]

I am a new member so I hope I do this correctly

I have a photo of my grandfather, Henry Hindle with his wife Alice. Unfortunately, this is the only photo I have of him

As he died in 1930 I assume this uniform is of the Great War but can find no information regarding regiment etc

I can see on his left sleeve a scroll type pattern with 4 chevrons above and what looks like two flags crossed over

If anyone can give me any clues regarding this uniform I would be very grateful as it will give me some hope of finding more information about him. I believe he was living in Liverpool in 1913-14

Thank you for looking

Anne

Hi Ann, welcome to the forum,

Im no expert, but i think the crossed flags indicate he is a trained signaller, but im sure other members of the forum will be able to shed more light on the photo.

regards

Russ

[Rusty2727]

Also Ann, just did a quick google with regards to the chevrons,each chevron may indicate a years service overseas.

Russ

[daggers]

Anne, welcome.

Medal experts might be able to identify the ribbon above his left pocket if you can post an enlarged section or close-up version.

I believe the elaborate decoration by the cuff is known as an Austrian knot, but do not know its significance here. The uniform is certainly not one he would have gone to war in !

Have you found Henry on the 1911 census?

D

[merlot1970]

The uniform is Dress and he's a Signal man with Signal mans insignia. Looks early pre WW1.

[AnGemEngland]

Thank you very much for all your replies

I will have a try to get a better close up of the ribbon on the pocket. It was a very worn and torn photo and the only one I have of him

I did not find Henry on the 1911 census, but then again I do not have much to go on and I used up my credits remarkably quickly

I do not know where he came from (possibly Yorkshire or Preston) and do not have his parents names (except his father may also be called Henry)

It sounds impossible but I will do everything I can to find out more about my grandad. My father was only 2 when he died and unfortunately he and his siblings are all now dead, but none of them knew anything about his war years. Even his date of birth is in doubt his wedding cert says 1885 but the death cert makes it 1883

I will keep trying. I was hoping to find something about his war years but only have this photo to go on

Sorry for writing a book, and please keep any information coming no matter how small as I have not much to go on

I will not let this man be forgotten

Thanks

Anne

[headgardener]

The stripes above his cuff are good conduct stripes; 1 for every 2 years without any blemishes on his record. Looks like he was a good boy!

Would say that it was definately pre-war; look at her clothes and his hair-cut. I'd place it around 1910, or a couple of years either side.

Medal ribbon could be a QSA (Queens South Africa), or KSA (King's South Africa)? Possibly an IGS (India General Service). Lighting effects and photographic processes could make colours appear very different (especially on B&W film), and considering my estimated date, and the fact that he had at least 8 years service, I'd say an IGS or KSA.

It's a very nice picture, in my opinion. Not too formal, arms draped around each other, his hand on her waist, unusual considering the portrait 'conventions' of the time.

[Muerrisch]

Assuming he is in British service, the general appearance of him and the lady suggest pre-1914 but close to it. I am not an RE expert but I think the elaborate cuff ornament is RE.

However, the four chevrons indicate a minimum of 16 years service [or up to 23 max] with good conduct. This suggests enlistment c. 1895, so the medal ribbon could be one of several, the most likely ones being South Africa War, or Indian General Service.

The badge above may be crossed signalling flags, which accords with RE, who had their own signallers [in addition to those of infantry, cavalry and artillery].

[headgardener]

Yes, RE has to be a good guess. Was wondering if it was Royal Artillery?

Grumpy; I thought that it was 1 GC stripe for 2 years service, no?

[Muerrisch]

good conduct badges go:

2,5,12,18*, 23*,28*

the * indicates possible acceleration by 2 years.

At the end of the war, an extra badge for each extra 5 years was authorized. Those with such awards were probably arthritic so were excused bending the elbow very much.

[Tonym]

Just thought that I would have a play but I am sure that someone could do better

Tony

[AnGemEngland]

Thank you all once again for your help, it is all being noted as possible leads

If he was in the army before 1914 it might be why I cannot find him on the census (I didnt realise there was that many Henry Hindles)

Thank you Tony for cleaning up the picture and it doesnt look torn anymore

My husband is just doing another scan with better difinition (we hope) and I will try to get a better pic of the ribbon and also shoulder as there seems to be something there as well

Did soldiers often have pictures taken with their wives like this. Is it possible it could be his wedding picture? (married 1914)

I only found this site last week and cant believe how helpful you all are

Thanks again

Anne

[Muerrisch]

with the odd Grumpy exception, we are modestly fantastic.

[headgardener]

Did soldiers often have pictures taken with their wives like this. Is it possible it could be his wedding picture? (married 1914)

Too informal for a wedding pic, I'd have thought. It's the informality of it that struck me when I said earlier that it's an interesting picture. They way that they have their arms draped around each other, and his hand on her hip, it's unusual to see. You'll often see one with their hand on the other's shoulder, the other sitting with their hands demurely folded in their lap. There was usually very little touching in those studio pics, and what there was looked pretty chaste.

It may not be exceptional, but it is unusual.

It is, as I said before, a very nice pic.

[KevinBattle]

Whilst headgardener may be right (he usually is!) I see no reason why we could not imagine it as a wedding or honeymoon photo.

He looks a young chap but has quite a few years service if his good conduct stripes are anything to go by.

What other reason would he have to be dressed in best uniform with a pretty girl?

What a pity we can't see her ring finger...........

[DrB]

With the "chicken guts" on his sleeve, he could very well be R.E with a red tunic, faced blue, with yellow "gold" sleeve decoration .

Good luck on your quest.

DrB

[AnGemEngland]

Ive been searching the web and I agree all the pics Ive seen are couples not touching at all or with one hand on the shoulder.

It makes this pic even nicer

Ive been wondering if this couple could actually be my great great grandparents. My dad told me it was his parents, but he was only a baby when his dad died and Ive also found some of his memories have turned out to be different than he thought

The man in the uniform looks exactly like my younger brother, they could be twins, so I am sure its a direct relative

Would this make the uniform look correct (around 1880 ish) Ive not seen another uniform like it and I have been searching

To make it worse I believe my GG grandfather is also called Henry and I cant find anything about him either

Ive got a close up of the ribbon and shoulder, but its not very good (in fact its awful) but here it is anyway just in case its of any use

Thanks for all your help

Anne

[AnGemEngland]

Sorry thats just a big blur isnt it

I`m going to sound thick her but could someone tell me what R.E. means please

[Rusty2727]

Royal Engineers

[AnGemEngland]

Oh gosh of course it is....even I should have known that

Thanks

Anne

[Rusty2727]

haha...its gettin late, thats all it is Ann!

[battiscombe]

I would have thought artillery.is possible.... there was a Henry Hindle 48985 in L Battery Royal Horse Artillery at Newbridge Ireland in 1911 - aged 26 and single at the time ... but this is not the fancy RHA dress uniform .I dont know if they had a plainer undress/walking out uniform without frogging. born in 'England' .. page 20 of the Newbridge Barrack returns ... enlisted 7/9/1907 went to France 22/8/1914 (unit not listed on medal card.. maybe 110 Heavy battery from records??) ) discharged 1919 with 11 years service ..

his records survive - he joined RGA in 1907 and transferred to RHA - to reserve in 1913 - rejoined 1914 to R Bty - from Oswaldtwistle nr Accrington .. mother Sarah Ellen? ... but it seems he married Hilda (from Burnley?) it seems in 1917 (not Alice..).. so maybe a dead end there.. I will post anyway . when left to reserve in 1913 intended to live at rushden nr Blackburn ..

. might there be a badge on the shoulder strap (RFA? RHA?) .. or is that damage to photo? I think also possible grenades on the collar .. as would be right for artillery also .. the cuff ornament is fine for artillery comparing with a 1910 photo I have .. he is also described as having a small scar between his eyebrows ..blue eyes and dark brown hair ..

david

[AnGemEngland]

Thanks David, I know the one you mean (did he have tattoos) and I also dismissed it when I saw the wifes name

I know my grandfather got married in Liverpool in 1914 as I have the marriage cert, and on his first childs birth cert he is living in Liverpool (also 1914)

Ive not got a lot to go on and I think I know every Henry Hindle listed on Ancestry personally now

Ive searched my local church records and found his death and grave (no stone) and also have his death cert

Thank you again for looking for me

I will not give up on finding him even if I have to wait for the next 2 census. I want to pass this info onto my grandsons

Anne

[Rusty2727]

I did think Artillery at first, being a ex Artillery man myself, but the knot on the sleeve just doesn't look right, i cant see what the shoulder flash is like or any bombs on the collar, i do remember seeing a old No.1 dress when stationed in woolwich but cant really remember the knot on the sleeve, but that one's not really ringing any bells.

Im still thinking RE but wouldn't rule out RA or RHA.

Russ

[AnGemEngland]

With a magnifying glass that lights up I can just make out a small ribbon (maybe 5 squares) outside ones darkly coloured and a dark one in the middle. The other 2 squares are lighter. The pics so bad that this could be a badge, I`m not sure as it looks higher up than the pocket.

The buttons are all light and the collar looks as though it could be turned up with something on the front of it under his chin. It looks like 3 light coloured pips (bigger than the ones on the shoulder strap)

The shoulder strap has a light button and what looks like light stitching or pips going around it. At the end there is something but I cant make it out. It looks as though it could be a crown but then it looks quite thin with two bits sticking out the top, it could even be letters or numbers. It is really hard to see

My poor eyes, thanks everyone for your help

Anne