HMS Diligence

[ianshuter]

I want to revive this topic. I am researching Able Seaman J/16315 (Portsmouth) Wilfred Jack Henry SPENCER who is one of the 8 men named above on 16 May 2010

He fell overboard and drowned on 29 Oct 1917. He is buried at Lyness Royal Naval Cemetery, Orkney Islands and CWGC list him as being a crew member of HMS Diligence. However if Diligence was a depot ship is that feasible?. On his service record though it records him as being on "Diligence (Onslaught)" and I am assuming (and we all know what that makes) that Diligence was his "base" but that he was actually on one of the destroyers served by it - HMS Onslaught which was based in Scotland. His Navy Death record supports this as he was said to be on HMS Onslaught when he died.

His reason for death in his service record "Report of the ? the death of the man who fell overboard on 29 October 1917 and was drowned. No blame is attributable to anyone."

I want to be able to answer any questions before they are actually asked and check with those more knowledgeable than me that my assumption is correct.
 

Edited 9 December , 2023 by ianshuter
Image added

[KizmeRD]

See attached - HMS Diligence was the depot ship for the entire 12th Destroyer Flotilla.
He was most definitely a crew member aboard HMS Onslaught when he fell overboard and drowned (Diligence simply handled his pay and admin).

MB

[ianshuter]

18 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

See attached - HMS Diligence was the depot ship for the entire 12th Destroyer Flotilla.
He was most definitely a crew member aboard HMS Onslaught when he fell overboard and drowned (Diligence simply handled his pay and admin).

MB

Many thanks - there is my you learn something new everyday momemt

[simonharley]

The part you marked ? in the quote is "Court of Enquiry", or officially Court of Inquiry.

[ianshuter]

43 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

See attached - HMS Diligence was the depot ship for the entire 12th Destroyer Flotilla.
He was most definitely a crew member aboard HMS Onslaught when he fell overboard and drowned (Diligence simply handled his pay and admin).

MB

Also here is what the information was used for - https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2886:as-wjh-spencer&catid=16:the-men-who-fell-in-ww1

https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php/war-memorial-transcriptions/war-memorial-transcritions-e-k/hatton-wm/hatton-wm-2

[ianshuter]

6 minutes ago, simonharley said:

The part you marked ? in the quote is "Court of Enquiry", or officially Court of Inquiry.

thank you, I am so used to using the acronym C of E on our website in relation to Church of England that I couldn't compute anything else. Page updated
https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2886:as-wjh-spencer&catid=16:the-men-who-fell-in-ww1

[KizmeRD]

I have just visited your S.Warwick family history Soc. website where his entry states that he received a 1914 Star - do you know what he was doing to earn that?  - Only I couldn’t find his name listed on the medal roll (he wasn’t one of the machine-gun parties).
According to his service sheet, he was serving on HMS Alfridi (6th Destroyer Flotilla, Dover Patrol) at the time, and I wasn’t aware that they supplied any naval parties in support of the fighting onshore. Is it possible that what Spencer actually earned was the 1914-15 Star? (Forgive me in advance, if I’m wrong).

Also, under ‘other information’ the website says he signed on for a further 12 years in October 1914, whereas in fact, this was the date of his first (adult) engagement (as an Ordinary Seaman) effective on reaching the ripe age of 18 (having earlier enrolled as a ‘Boy’ in 1912).   Also (from his service sheet) it’s clear that during his time in ALFRIDI he was advanced from Ordinary Seaman to Able Seaman.

MB

Edited 9 December , 2023 by KizmeRD

[ianshuter]

1 hour ago, KizmeRD said:

I have just visited your S.Warwick family history Soc. website where his entry states that he received a 1914 Star - do you know what he was doing to earn that?  - Only I couldn’t find his name listed on the medal roll (he wasn’t one of the machine-gun parties).
According to his service sheet, he was serving on HMS Alfridi (6th Destroyer Flotilla, Dover Patrol) at the time, and I wasn’t aware that they supplied any naval parties in support of the fighting onshore. Is it possible that what Spencer actually earned was the 1914-15 Star? (Forgive me in advance, if I’m wrong).

Also, under ‘other information’ the website says he signed on for a further 12 years in October 1914, whereas in fact, this was the date of his first (adult) engagement (as an Ordinary Seaman) effective on reaching the ripe age of 18 (having earlier enrolled as a ‘Boy’ in 1912).   Also (from his service sheet) it’s clear that during his time in ALFRIDI he was advanced from Ordinary Seaman to Able Seaman.

MB

Thank you - accuracy is everything.  We are still working on him, trying to find out where he was living in 1901 and 1911, his father Wilfred John was a Naval Pensioner in 1911 but Jack was not with them despite being only 15.

I have updated his medal to 14-15 Star and added a third tab detailing his service history - he became AS on 20 Jan 1915.

If you are interested below is our database - click on show filters and then type HMS in the Unit Field. We have 14 men (out of 36 Royal Navy) researched so far and then we have some Naval Reservists, Royal Naval Air Service and Royal Marines in our spreadsheet as well . https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php/war-memorial-transcriptions/fallen-of-ww1-index/

[KizmeRD]

25 minutes ago, ianshuter said:

Thank you - accuracy is everything.  We are still working on him, trying to find out where he was living in 1901 and 1911, his father Wilfred John was a Naval Pensioner in 1911 but Jack was not with them despite being only 15.

I have updated his medal to 14-15 Star and added a third tab detailing his service history - he became AS on 20 Jan 1915.
 

There’s a remote possibility he might have attended an Industrial School Ship (like T.S. Mount Edgcumbe, for example) prior to him joining the Royal Navy (many single-parent boys did) - they took them at a younger age than the ‘proper navy’. 

Able Seaman aka ‘Able-bodied Seaman’ - officially abbreviated to AB (not AS).

MB

[horatio2]

4 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

There’s a remote possibility he might have attended an Industrial School Ship

His civilian occupation is recorded as "GHS" = Greenwich Hospital School.

[ianshuter]

1 hour ago, horatio2 said:

His civilian occupation is recorded as "GHS" = Greenwich Hospital School.

Thank you! now we know where he was in 1911, another record source seen for the first time today .. admitted on the 5th February 1909 and discharged to HMS Ganges on 29 Mar 1912. Father Mr. Spencer, 5 Lammas Cottages, Linen Street, Warwick, page updated and provides further evidence to support the blog post I made earlier about his entry in the Warwickshire Roll of Honour Book

https://rhsarchives.cortes.websds.net/authenticated/Browse.aspx?BrowseID=393&tableName=ta_historicdocuments

https://www.swfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2886:as-wjh-spencer&catid=16:the-men-who-fell-in-ww1

Edited 9 December , 2023 by ianshuter