'War honour for heroine'

[Sue Light]

I alway thought that this forums main aim was to remember the fallen and to ensure that they are never forgotton - isn't this why many of us are beavering about over old memorials?

Grant

I was totally unaware that the Forum's main aim was to remember those who died (I find 'fallen' a bit OTT, especially when referring to women) - surely that is only one tiny part of its remit. As someone who has done a great deal of war memorial research in the past, the lesson I learned from it was that immense importance is given to those who died, whatever the cause, while very little is done to research those who survived. As far as women go, I strongly oppose the view that all women were 'heroines' or 'angels.' They were working women who joined various services for many different reasons, some even (Lord forbid!) to make a bit of money or get an independent life away from home. Casualties were such a tiny part of the war where women were concerned, and how good it would be for some promotion of women's work in general, and get away from casualty, casualty, casualty. Death at a young age, wherever and whenever it happens is a tragedy, but to elevate war workers to the sainthood only detracts from the full story. I applaud, unreservedly, all those women who slogged their way through more than four years of war without complaint, didn't die, and were instrumental in helping to steer the country to victory. They get little enough publicity elsewhere.

Sue

(also having a tetchy day - and, like Rose Cotton, born in Teddington)

[tjpatti]

I alway thought that this forums main aim was to remember the fallen and to ensure that they are never forgotton - isn't this why many of us are beavering about over old memorials?

The press has a reputation to supply storys that are in the norm inaccurate - always have and always will - but as a forum shouldn't we be trying to set the record straight ?

If she volunteered to serve, then that places her along side all of the others who volunteered, they were not forced to go and as far as Im concerned that makes each and every one of them a Hero.

Joe public seems unaware that women served in WW1 - apart from nurses and entertaineers - and if the local paper's campaign brings that fact alone to the public then it's good news.

Her familys wealth, occupations and even her cause of death are all immaterial, she died in the service of her country and for that she deserves to be rememberd with respect and honour

As Teresa has already said she has sent the link to the journalist, this is a chance for us to tell the world (well Croyden anyway) the true facts about Rose Cotton and maybe get others intreasted in the Great War.

Grant

Grant, your reply and mine 'crossed in the post'. May the sun continue to shine on you over there in Swindon.

Teresa

[tjpatti]

When I first posted this thread, I was looking for information on Rose Cotton to pass on to the Croydon Guardian. It looks like there isn't any freely available so I feel obliged to see if I can find any by myself. This isn't really my remit so any pointers and/or suggestions from those with expertise will be most welcome.

I think poor old Rose has had a bit of a raw deal here.

Teresa

[Sue Light]

Teresa

DocumentsOnline at The National Archives has fifteen service records availiable for members of WAAC/QMAAC who were born in Croydon. Perhaps some broader study could be done on these women. Their records are free to view at TNA, and there might well be something there which would be interesting to the people of Croydon, and show the wider picture of which Rose Cotton was a part.

Sue

[tjpatti]

Teresa

DocumentsOnline at The National Archives has fifteen service records availiable for members of WAAC/QMAAC who were born in Croydon. Perhaps some broader study could be done on these women. Their records are free to view at TNA, and there might well be something there which would be interesting to the people of Croydon, and show the wider picture of which Rose Cotton was a part.

Sue

Thanks, Sue. I shall be going over to the NA in the near future as my Reader's Ticket expires in May. I shall seek and see what I can find, 'though I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for as this is way out of my area of expertise.

Kind regards

Teresa

[Kitty VAD]

I find any individual story of women who served in the Great War fascinating. Such a departure from what was expected.

Good luck with your research, it's always exciting and sometimes infuriating!

Kate

(sing out if I can help, I also research the role of women in WW1 and am shortly publishing my first book on the topic which is pretty exciting, even if it's only a small tome!)

[royalredcross]

The facts are that someone has noticed the grave of a woman who, for whatever unknown reasons, decided to enrol in the QMAAC at a fairly late stage in the war, judging by her number. She died of as yet unknown causes, almost certainly without serving abroad at a time when the Spanish flu was raging through the country.

Though these facts are interesting in themselves, the "shock!! horror!! requirements of modern journalism require that the facts be embroidered. Thus, poor Rose's elevation to the status of "Heroine"

Cetainly she should be remembered as one who served her country and died whilst in service and she is .... in the records of the CWGC.

Norman

[tjpatti]

I find any individual story of women who served in the Great War fascinating. Such a departure from what was expected.

Good luck with your research, it's always exciting and sometimes infuriating!

Kate

(sing out if I can help, I also research the role of women in WW1 and am shortly publishing my first book on the topic which is pretty exciting, even if it's only a small tome!)

Many thanks, Kate, for your reply and your offer of help. I have spent the better part of this morning cross-referencing with BMD & the 1911 census the 15 service records available online of Croydon-born members of WAAC/QMAAC - just to confirm they actually were born in Croydon before I take the next step of ordering the documents. I am on the Editorial Team of the local Residents' Association magazine and intend to write an article about these women (including Rose Cotton) for the November issue. Who knows, if I accumulate enough information, I may get our printers to run off a few boxes of booklets.

Good luck with the publishing of your book - what's it called so's I know what to look out for?

Kind regards

Teresa

[tjpatti]

The facts are that someone has noticed the grave of a woman who, for whatever unknown reasons, decided to enrol in the QMAAC at a fairly late stage in the war, judging by her number. She died of as yet unknown causes, almost certainly without serving abroad at a time when the Spanish flu was raging through the country.

Though these facts are interesting in themselves, the "shock!! horror!! requirements of modern journalism require that the facts be embroidered. Thus, poor Rose's elevation to the status of "Heroine"

Cetainly she should be remembered as one who served her country and died whilst in service and she is .... in the records of the CWGC.

Norman

Tentatively I agree with Norman. May I request that anyone with information about Rose Cotton or the Croydon WAAC/QMAAC please post it here but anyone who wants to take a pop at the media for their indiscriminate use of the words 'hero/heroine' please start another thread on that issue (you will have plenty of opportunity later in the summer when Our Footballing Heroes take to the field in S. Africa).

Regards

Teresa

[Kitty VAD]

They like 'They also served' which I don't like! I think I'm just going for 'Women of the Great War, a pictorial history' as I'm working on WW2 as we speak!

I'm sure I'll be told what to do by the head man....nothing really changes does it!

Good luck with your research and please keep us posted.

Kate

[tjpatti]

They like 'They also served' which I don't like! I think I'm just going for 'Women of the Great War, a pictorial history' as I'm working on WW2 as we speak!

I'm sure I'll be told what to do by the head man....nothing really changes does it!

Good luck with your research and please keep us posted.

Kate

Ha, by coincidence 'They Also Served' was a title I was playing around with this morning for the article I mentioned in my previous post - until it occurred to me that it could also apply to horses, mules, dogs, etc and even pigeons!

Let me know when the book is on the shelves.

Teresa

[Carmania]

'They Also Served' has been used as the the subtitle of a book which Jim Strawbridge drew to my attention, 'American Women in World War I: They Also Served' by Lettie Gavin, University of Colorado Press, 1997.

Aled

[Andrew Upton]

I was totally unaware that the Forum's main aim was to remember those who died

Indeed - forum rules say:

"Subject matter

This forum is specifically designed to discuss matters relating to the Great War of 1914-1918. Clearly, on occasion, discussion necessarily drifts into related areas and this is permissible. There is also an off-topic area for non-WW1 discussion for the category of members whose status has been raised to "Old Sweat", which takes place at 100 posts. Discussions and posts on modern-day politics or religion will not be tolerated in any area of the forum. Always post in the appropriate area for your topic and don't post similar messages in multiple areas. Messages posted that are irrelevant to the discussion and designed to distract or disrupt will be deleted without warning."

[Heid the Ba]

As far as women go, I strongly oppose the view that all women were 'heroines' or 'angels.' They were working women who joined various services for many different reasons, some even (Lord forbid!) to make a bit of money or get an independent life away from home. Casualties were such a tiny part of the war where women were concerned, and how good it would be for some promotion of women's work in general, and get away from casualty, casualty, casualty. Death at a young age, wherever and whenever it happens is a tragedy, but to elevate war workers to the sainthood only detracts from the full story. I applaud, unreservedly, all those women who slogged their way through more than four years of war without complaint, didn't die, and were instrumental in helping to steer the country to victory. They get little enough publicity elsewhere.

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