Please can someone help me identify the date of pictures from the unif

[lmcunningham1]

This picture is of either my grandad or his father or possibly a brother????

I have been told it is possibly a Hussar but that is all. Im really interested in the regiment and date ?

This picture I believe is the same man?? but again I could be wrong, Im confused as he seems to be wearing an RAF uniform??

Again could anyone please help me identify the possible year photo was taken?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone might be able to give me

Linda

[daggers]

Hussar seems OK for the first - I have a relative seen in a similar jacket, around 1911.

RAF is the badge on the second one as you say. It was formed from the Royal Flying Corps and Royal Naval Air Service in 1918.

Could he have transferred from one service to the other? If you post the likely names, Medal Index Cards might give a clue.

D

[lmcunningham1]

Here is my problem

These pictures were my grandfathers, In recent years through tracing his family tree I have discovered that he stole someone elses identity?

We knew him as Albert Carter and he enlisted in the Royal Artillery in 1931

These pictures are either him in his former life ( and they really do look like him ) or they are his father?

His real surname could have been Carter but on the back of the Hussar uniform it had a name and address and the name although faded looks like ?J Adam or Adams ...... not a lot to go on which is why im trying to at least date them.

Just a little extra ... the second picture in the RAF badge he is wearing what looks like an arm band? does this help date?

thanks Linda

[Patrick ODwyer]

19th Hussars c. 1909 to 1914; could be later but does not seem so. Certainly not earlier.

[lmcunningham1]

Thanks Patrick

Any ideas on the second picture?

Linda

[wizard2250]

Right shoulder has a badge or crest of some sort and it certainly seems like a sewn-on arm band on the left forearm. Under magnification, the shoulder badge doesn't look like 'wings'. Also the cap badge looks like RAR. I am certainly no expert....just writing what I see.Hope it helps.

shawn

[Steven Broomfield]

19th Hussars c. 1909 to 1914; could be later but does not seem so. Certainly not earlier.

Purely out of interest, what identifies him as 19th? (I'm not questioning; I'm just interested to know).

And the lower one is definitely RAF.

Finally, if he re-enlisted in 1931, he must have been cracking on if the Hussar photo is pre-GW. By 1931 he was at least in his mid-30's.

[lmcunningham1]

[Finally, if he re-enlisted in 1931, he must have been cracking on if the Hussar photo is pre-GW. By 1931 he was at least in his mid-30's.

In 1931 when he enlisted he took the name Albert Carter he said his DOB was 1908 but later when marrying my nan he knew he was born Dec 1909 but not sure of the date? The real Albert Carter was born on the 4th Dec 1909.

Certainly in 1931 he was pretending to be someone in his early 20's !!! If the dates are correct on the photos either he was in mid 30's or this is his father.........just gets more confusing

His father according to his marriage certifcate in 1939 was a Robert Carter PO worker deceased

The real Alberts father was called Robert Carter and he was a PO worker although he did not die until 1956!!!

I have traced the correct family and we have exchanged photos and they dont have any idea who my grandad realy might be.

He also had a baby photo which I have had dated to c1901..........grrrrr nothing seems to fit!!!!

Thanks everyone for your help, does anyone have any idea where I might be able to trace a date on the second picture?

Linda

[Patrick ODwyer]

Purely out of interest, what identifies him as 19th? (I'm not questioning; I'm just interested to know).

White plume, White Busby Bag (could be 13th H or 19th H)

Blue Collar (rules out the white collar of the 13th H)

Therefore 19th Hussars

Of course - if the bag is not white that would be a different story but I think it is. If Linda gave us some names we may be able to confirm.

[Steven Broomfield]

Ta.

Is there an idiot's guide anywhere?

[Patrick ODwyer]

'British Hussar Regiments 1805-1914' by H A Bowling is useful

[Patrick ODwyer]

I see Linda does have names. The photo (Hussars) could be post war - I would only say not before 1909. I was going on its style (looks c. Great War). There are four Albert Carters in Corps of Hussars but none clearly 19th Hussars for Great War.

If born 1908 that would make the photo late 1920s. This uniform was not worn regularly then. As you say may be a brother too.

Just thinking this through, if this is after 1922 it would be 15th/19th Hussars (possibly) but I would note the plumes etc for that period were scarlet. Which may lead us back to pre 1922 19th Hussars.

Patrick

[centurion]

Ta.

Is there an idiot's guide anywhere?

Janes All the World Idiots (vols 1 -24)

[Steven Broomfield]

Goes to show.

I'm on the cover of volume 25

[lmcunningham1]

Patrick, Could the Hussars picture be 1918-1922? The name on the back says ?( cant read first initial ) J then the surname is either Adam or possibly the s on Adams has been worn away. The adress is in Liverpool but not sure if that is relevant as grandad came from London

Is it possible to look up that name for me or tell me where to look.

Linda

[centurion]

I can see a man going Hussars to RAF via the RFC but not the other way around once the RAF had become separate from the army. Id suspect therefore that the hussar photo has to be earlier.

One should consider that they might not be of your grandfather or other relative at all, they could be part of the false persona.

[Patrick ODwyer]

The picture certainly could be from that period but the uniform was less often worn then. I can't find a matching Adams but he could have served only with the RFC/RAF overseas.

6763 John Adam, 11th Hussars (but wrong uniform), a few Adams in 20th Hussars

[lmcunningham1]

Thank you so much for looking for me .

Im not sure I will ever solve this mystery and really wish I hadnt started !!!

Maybe the answer will come from the address on the back .........

At least I now know the picture is from the 19th Hussars and an approx date range

Linda

[4thGordons]

Not sure it helps with the intracies of tracking down the person but....

The RAF jacket (in the second picture) is probably 1920/30s (rather than late Great War or immediately post war) I think, .

The jacket is certainly not a standard 1902 service dress jacket. It is belted, it has no rifle patches and appears to have a single collar pleat, the pocket flaps are shaped rather than square and I think he is wearing eagle shoulder flashes, an insignia expert may know when these were introduced. It also appears that the peak of his cap is leather which will also probably allow those in the know to suggest a date.

Chris

[Patrick ODwyer]

Linda

List all your male relatives of the era and we will try to find a match. Don't give up now!

Patrick

[Patrick ODwyer]

Albert G Boncey 19th Hussars, Royal West Surrey Regiment, Attached Royal Air Force

W V Hopson 19th Hussars 3rd Hamps R, att Royal Air Force

Harold J Jones 19th Hussars, Royal Engineers, Royal Air Force, Royal Air Force

Henry Budd Stubbs 19th Hussars, Royal Flying Corps, Royal Air Force

Joseph Thomas Thursfield 19th Hussars, Royal Air Force, Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Geoffrey William Dobson 19 Hussars, Royal Air Force

any of these names ring a bell?

[mbloy]

I would put my money on the second photo (in RAF uniform) being taken in 1936: with the Black crepe armband being worn to commemorate the death of George V.

[centurion]

Certainly doesn't fit with re enlisted RA in 1931.

[lmcunningham1]

Albert G Boncey 19th Hussars, Royal West Surrey Regiment, Attached Royal Air Force

W V Hopson 19th Hussars 3rd Hamps R, att Royal Air Force

Harold J Jones 19th Hussars, Royal Engineers, Royal Air Force, Royal Air Force

Henry Budd Stubbs 19th Hussars, Royal Flying Corps, Royal Air Force

Joseph Thomas Thursfield 19th Hussars, Royal Air Force, Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Geoffrey William Dobson 19 Hussars, Royal Air Force

any of these names ring a bell?

Very interesting list of names, Thank you so much!!

Although sadly none of them ring any bells with family names they are a list of possible names that are worth tracing through Ancestry to see if they fit with my grandads story.

Is this a list of all possible men that served in both the 19th Hussars and the RAF?

Family names I have are

Carter

Adams/Adam

Lawrence

Hurley

Lacey

Aubrey

These names are all connected to the Carters and I feel that grandad knew the Carters well. He knew both first and middle names and also had the same family profession of a Paint and decorator. In fact freakily he died in 1983 8 years before the real Albert Carter and both men died of exactly the same heart disease.

Thanks again

Linda

[Wardog]

Thel RAF 'brass' badge came into use after the Great War, I forget if 1919 or 1920. Not possible is it that RA was on paperwork and that it should be RAF? Regards, Paul.