Phil Evans Posted 23 March , 2010 Share Posted 23 March , 2010 Following the addition of Wallace Truscott last year, I think I may have found another Lewisham man who is missing from the CWGC. Corporal George James Lambourne, 2897 and 630999, 1/20th Battalion, London Regiment is remembered on the Roll of Honour at Brownhill Road Baptist Church, Catford. His service record, which survives in WO 364, shows that he was discharged on 14th November 1917 under Para 392 (xvi) KR. He was wounded on 30th September 1916 and evacuated to England where he spent the period from 7th November 1916 to 14th November 1917 in the 4th London General Hospital. Originally admitted for GSW to left arm, leg and back, he was later diagnosed with Pulmonary TB. He was granted a pension in respect of both conditions, although only the GSW appear on his discharge paper. His pension records exist up to August 1919 and although there is no record of his death in his service papers, I believe he died about this time. Deaths Sept Qu. 1919 Lewisham 1d 857 Lambourne, George J Age 27 I would appreciate it if some-one else could double check the CWGC to see if I have missed him. I assume that as he died after discharge, he is not on the IFCP programme, but would also appreciate knowing if he has been submitted by anyone else, if possible. I believe that there is a good chance of getting him accepted, provided that, in all probability, he died of TB, but welcome comments. I am prepared to get the DC (hopefully before the price rise) and depending on the cause of death, put him forward myself. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 23 March , 2010 Share Posted 23 March , 2010 Phil No, I can't see him on CWGC. I may not be correctly reading your post - are you saying there (or is not) documentary evidence that TB was a reason for discharge? If there is, and the DC confirms TB as cause of death, then there is a strong case to put forward. If he died from unconnected reasons, then there is not. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 23 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2010 John, The actual discharge document only states the GSW. TB seems to first appear on his medical notes, whilst still in service, in October 1917. It clearly states on his pension awards that payment was granted for both GSW and TB. The cause of the TB is given as infection and exposure. Not as clear cut as I would have liked, but do you think there is a chance, subject to the DC? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 Phil just had a look at the service record. If his DC shows that he died as result as the GSW you have a case; if TB you have a case as the Chelsea Pension Doc dated 17 Nov 1917 shows the TB as a result of active service Would you like me to carry out a grave search for you Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 Phil - yep - good case. Get the DC and make sure he wasnt killed by a runaway tram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 you & your trams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 Could have been a trolley bus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 you & your trams It'll happen one day. Bound to. Nearest I've come was a runaway horse but he was serving and got commem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 24 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 24 March , 2010 Thanks Chris and John for the expert advice ( and Steve for the additional humour). Chris, if you think you may be able to locate his grave, then yes please. Don't go mad on it though, as hopefully it is in the borough. I've checked the Ladywell listings, but can't see him or any likely family. Hither Green is the other likely one and if I deliver on a promise (3 months behind schedule at the moment) I may be able to call in a favour. I'll get the DC and go from there. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Phil when you get the DC please let me know the details & I will do the grave search. I have a good contact in the Lewisham Cemeteries dept chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 25 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Phil when you get the DC please let me know the details & I will do the grave search. I have a good contact in the Lewisham Cemeteries dept chris Chris, You may regret telling me that ...... you know it's my home ground. I sent for the DC last night. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 26 March , 2010 Share Posted 26 March , 2010 Phil no probs as long as it is non commemorateds they dont mind Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 10 April , 2010 Author Share Posted 10 April , 2010 George Lambourne's DC arrived today: Date of death: 29th September 1919 Place of death: 82B Farley Road, Catford Age: 27 Years Of no occupation / Army Pensioner Cause of death: (1) Phthisis 31/2 years (2) Syncope I'm happy enough now to start putting it all together for submission. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 12 April , 2010 Share Posted 12 April , 2010 Phil Do you know what on earth Syncope is - I have a similar Death certificate entry. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 12 April , 2010 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2010 Mel, "Partial or complete loss of consciousness with interruption of awareness of oneself and ones surroundings. When the loss of consciousness is temporary and there is spontaneous recovery, it is referred to as syncope or, in nonmedical terms, fainting." .......... and yes, I did steal that from an online medical dictionary. I've seen it on several DCs and think it is probably one of those catch-all terms. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Phil sadly no reply from Lewisham Council Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Oh dear that doesn't bode well for one of my new cases who is also buried in Lewisham! - SHAW G.W.L Able Seaman J66797 George William Luff SHAW. Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve (RNVR). Died before 25 February 1921. Born: 11 September 1898. Buried Heros Corner, Lewisham Cemetery, London. This man was mentioned in the newspaper article for BURGNEAY (below). It stated that Archibald Burgneay was buried “near to the spot where Councillor Burgneay’s nephew George SHAW (late A.B RNVR) was buried. His cousin was this man (buried in Heroes Corner) who was recently APPROVED by the commission - Private 262952 Archibald Stanley BURGNEAY. 8th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment. Formerly (Private 4850) 7th London Regiment. Died 25 February 1921 from the effects of gassing (T.B and Exhaustion) at Lewisham Hospital, South London aged 24 years. Born 14 April 1897 Beckenham, Kent. Son of Councillor Burgneay of 2 Blythe Hill, Catford, London (Kent in 1921). Buried Heroes Corner, Lewisham Cemetery (Ladywell), Lewisham, London. Grave reference – 3388 Plot D. The cemetery is now closed and is badly overgrown. Commemorated on a Kent civic tribute - the South Eastern & Chatham Railway (SE&CR) Memorial which is located at the former Dover Marine Railway Station. His name also appears on the Victoria Station Memorial in London. All I have at the moment for SHAW is a newspaper cutting which records the fact he's buried in Heroes Corner. Has anyone ever determined exactly what and where Heroes Corner is? I'd love a photo... I found this reference to Deptford War Memorial and Heroes Corner, not sure it's relevant though - http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/97...eyCAA4_1334.pdf Does this mean that Heroes Corner is in fact a civic war memorial and not a grave plot??? Found this too - http://lewishamwarmemorials.wikidot.com/na...w1-war-memorial http://lewishamwarmemorials.wikidot.com/person:figes-alfred It seems that Heroes Corner in Lewisham Cemetery MAY be a non-com hotspot worth a closer look.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinEndon Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 It'll happen one day. Bound to. Nearest I've come was a runaway horse but he was serving and got commem. how about this Paisley man Private John Knox (25), unmarried, son of Mrs. Knox, 47 George Street, employee Nevka Thread Mill, Petrograd, killed November 12th, 1914 in Petrograd by electric tram as he was going to volunteer. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Neil when submitting your case ensure that all the info on the burial goes in. If you can actually show a definite burial place in your evidence then CWGC will carry out the check with the burial authority themselves Kevin John Hartley will be pleased Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 How long does it normally take the CWGC to issue a yey or a nay ? Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Army - Often very quickly indeed. This is how it should be done by the Navy and RAF. The army used to be tardy but in fairness to them it's improved dramatically in the past few years (proof it pays to tell the truth and stop making lame excuses for people giving a plain bad service). RAF - Last time I knew it was often taking years to make often odd and unfair determinations. This lot used to have much in common with the Naval Historical Branch. It may have got better? Navy (Naval Historical Branch in Portsmouth) - Years if ever (I have cases nearly 8 years old still waiting). An utter disgrace to the men they puport to serve! They are often harsh in their judgments and unlike the Army guys of late, they don't give the man the benefit of any doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 4 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Chris, Thanks for trying. I've sent off the first batch I've been working on for Lewisham War Memorial Project, so with a clear conscience, I may be able to try another route soon. I sent the submission to CWGC off today, so I reckon I have a few weeks to get the grave details in. If it turns out that he's not on Lewisham's books, I hope you have a good contact in Hungerford. Neil, As far as I can make out, given the large area covered by Section D, Heroes Corner is most likely roughly where the Screen Wall is. I checked my photos against known plots, but unfortunately most of them are from Section G. Next time I get to Lewisham Library, I must try to pin it down from the volume of MIs they have. I managed to locate Wallace Truscott's grave that way. Please, no requests, I'm already in the doghouse due to one visit too many to Ladywell/Brockley over recent weekends. Grant, I don't know how typical this is but this is last years timetable for Wallace Truscott: 28th April CWGC received the documentation. 12th May they informed me that the MoD had accepted him. 10th August he was added by CWGC (after a gentle nudge). Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Cheers Phil / Neil, So my wait of a month is nothing then :-( Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinnethmont Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 I don't know how typical this is but this is last years timetable for Wallace Truscott: 28th April CWGC received the documentation. 12th May they informed me that the MoD had accepted him. 10th August he was added by CWGC (after a gentle nudge). The timing suggests Truscott was serving at his death. Army post discharge cases ( eg. George Lambourne) take much, much longer than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 4 May , 2010 Share Posted 4 May , 2010 Phil, Is your George related to my Ernest Lambourne ? I see you mention Hungerford which is farily close by Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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