Why did they join up?

[corisande]

How about this then

[BrendanLee]

I would say there were as many reasons for Irishmen joining the British Army as there were Irishmen in the British Army. My great uncle had an argument with his father, ran away from home, joined the British Army and was KIA on the Somme. My grandfather fought against the British in the War of Independence, one of his sons joined the British Navy and another the British Army in WW2.

Like all other sections of Irish society Catholic Priests either opposed, supported or ignored WW1. In one parish you could be accused of 'taking the soup' if you enlisted and in the next parish condemned to Hell for not joining up to defend those poor helpless Belgian Nuns, funny how the Nuns went from helpless in WW1 to Nazi Paratroopers in WW2.

In the image below the grave on the right contains the remains of 5 British Soldiers KIA during the 1916 Rising, the grave on the left contains the remain of 2 Irish Volunteers also KIA in the Rising. They may have been enemies in life but Rest in Peace together.

[irishmen1916]

That's it Tom. History, as she has been written, tends to gloss over that.

The fact that the 1916 rebellion was not popular when it took place, has not really been properly written into Irish history.

And the fact that the British Government screwed up a post war solution to the "Irish problem" by the use of firing squads, is not fully accepted in British histories.

For the average working class bloke in Ireland in 1914, the reasons for joining up were probably the same as in the rest of the UK. Post Easter 1916, the situation changed, and recruiting dropped. And as you know conscription never came to Ireland.

When I was a guide many years ago in Dublin, I always pointed out this very fact, I may be wrong but this is also pointed out

in a lot of books on the rising ? anyway as regards to joining up, I think that most of the reasons where the same through out

the UK as well as Ireland, as has been mention in other posts on this thread.

[west coast]

I would say there were as many reasons for Irishmen joining the British Army as there were Irishmen in the British Army. My great uncle had an argument with his father, ran away from home, joined the British Army and was KIA on the Somme. My grandfather fought against the British in the War of Independence, one of his sons joined the British Navy and another the British Army in WW2.

[/size]

Like all other sections of Irish society Catholic Priests either opposed, supported or ignored WW1. In one parish you could be accused of 'taking the soup' if you enlisted and in the next parish condemned to Hell for not joining up to defend those poor helpless Belgian Nuns, funny how the Nuns went from helpless in WW1 to Nazi Paratroopers in WW2.

In the image below the grave on the right contains the remains of 5 British Soldiers KIA during the 1916 Rising, the grave on the left contains the remain of 2 Irish Volunteers also KIA in the Rising. They may have been enemies in life but Rest in Peace together.

hi there,

is that in the area of arbour hill church.

mike.

[irishmen1916]

hi there,

is that in the area of arbour hill church.

mike.

Hi Mike,

I dont think so, I think that it may be Deansgrange, just a guess.

Peter

[BrendanLee]

hi there,

is that in the area of arbour hill church.

mike.

Hi,

Sorry I should have said where it was. It is in what used to be Dr Steeven's Hospital now it is the HQ of the Health Service Executive. It is listed on the CWG as EASTERN HEALTH BOARD OFFICES GROUNDS OF KILMAINHAM although it is not in the Royal Hospital Kilmainham. It is next door to the Guinness brewery and across the road from Heuston Station. They are now the only two headstones in the grounds, it used to be a burial ground for Dublin's poor, you could be buried for free (provided you were dead) but if you wanted a headstone it had to be paid for.

[west coast]

thanks for that, i know the area very well but i never knew about the graves. its strange that both sides buried their dead here with arbour hill just across the river and grangegorman cemetry a little further on. i think the rebel dead would have been to deansgrange?. was this a larger cemetry at one stage. our bus to ballyer used to stop at the mortuary there.

thanks again.

mike.

[cathal1972]

Thanks folks-fascinating replies.

Johnny, thanks for posting Keith Jeffery's article-very interesting. I will need to get his book.

The reference in this piece to the war memorial in Cork-does any one know where this is (or was)? I would like to take a look. Has it anything to do with the Munsters memorial near the Cathedral in Ieper (inscribed as erected by the people of Cork)?

I think Inishowen's point is well made-a good many joined up for political reasons, to achieve Home Rule, as Redmond had promised. In many ways they fought for Ireland in the same way as the rebels in 1916 or indeed the IRA during the War of Independence. I often think how sad it must have been for veterans returning, having gone through the horrors of the Western Front, Gallipoli or other theatres, to find the new, very negative connotations of a British Army uniform in Ireland. They went to further the cause of Home Rule, were eclipsed by events at home, and came back to a society that did not value their endeavours. As Kevin O'Higgins said "it was not on their sacrifice that this state is based." Sad.

Regards,

Cathal.

[BrendanLee]

thanks for that, i know the area very well but i never knew about the graves. its strange that both sides buried their dead here with arbour hill just across the river and grangegorman cemetry a little further on. i think the rebel dead would have been to deansgrange?. was this a larger cemetry at one stage. our bus to ballyer used to stop at the mortuary there.

thanks again.

mike.

Hi Mike,

I think they may have been treated in the hospital or brought in dead. I know Sean (John) Owens was killed in action at the South Dublin Union which was just up the road. All the British soldiers were either killed or wounded around Heuston Bridge which is just opposite the hospital. I am not sure where Peter Wilson died. As they all appear to have died during the fighting I suppose they were buried nearest to where they fell. Where they are buried is not far from the Royal Hospital Kilmainham which has a military cemetery with several 1916 Rising causalities buried there. Although it was a large cemetery it contained the graves of Dublin's poor and the vast majority of the graves were unmarked, it is now full of prefab buildings.

[MichaelBully]

Thanks for the replies on this thread. I started collecting books on The Lusitania last year, and one book I bought but never got to read in full was from the Irish republic titled 'Lusitania An Irish Tragedy' by Senan Molony (2004), which highlights the work of the Irish fishermen and lifeboats in trying to rescue survivors and contains accounts of the Irish passengers and crew.

Interesting to see that attempts to use the tragedy as a tool for recruitment in Ireland may not have much impact.

There were recruitment posters created referring to the Lusitania and a life raft from the Lusitania was marched around Dublin accompanied by members of the Dublin Battn VTC as part of a recruitment drive. Don't know what impact they had though.

[west coast]

[/size]

Hi Mike,

I think they may have been treated in the hospital or brought in dead. I know Sean (John) Owens was killed in action at the South Dublin Union which was just up the road. All the British soldiers were either killed or wounded around Heuston Bridge which is just opposite the hospital. I am not sure where Peter Wilson died. As they all appear to have died during the fighting I suppose they were buried nearest to where they fell. Where they are buried is not far from the Royal Hospital Kilmainham which has a military cemetery with several 1916 Rising causalities buried there. Although it was a large cemetery it contained the graves of Dublin's poor and the vast majority of the graves were unmarked, it is now full of prefab buildings.

thanks again,

i will have to have look around the area next time i am in dublin [maybe anzac day] i find it a bit strange that the cwgc havn`t at some stage given these men a seperate marked grave each [likewise the irish equialant authority]. there are some forum members who are into the cwgc ,they might pick up on your post if they see it. nice to talk to you.

mike.

[mhifle]

Hi,

This is from the Irish Times 5 May 1916

Regards Mark

[BrendanLee]

Hi Mark,

The 5 soldiers buried in the grave are:

Barnett, George William, 4628, Private, 2^nd/8^th Bn Sherwood Foresters, KIA Dublin 27/04/1916, from Loughborough Leicestershire, aged 23.

Bentley, Oscar, 7022, Private, 5th (Royal Irish) Lancers, KIA 24/04/1916.

Carr, Michael, 9852, Private, 3rd Royal Irish Regiment, KIA 24/04/1916.

Duffy, James, 9947, Private, 3rd Royal Irish Regiment, KIA 24/04/1916

Treacy, Thomas, 1162, 3rd Royal Irish Regiment, KIA 24/04/1916, from Mardike, Killenaule Co Tipperary.

[archangel9]

http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_report...0155&mode=1

1916 Rebellion Handbook has

Barnett as Barratt (obviously a mistake)

Bentley is not recorded.

Carr M (Mulhuddart)

Duffy J (St John's, NB)

Treacy T (Killenaule)

John

[mhifle]

Hi,

So Private unknown Royal Irish Regiment would have been

9852 Private Michael Carr, 3rd Royal Irish Regiment

Regards Mark

[BrendanLee]

http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_report...0155&mode=1

1916 Rebellion Handbook has

Barnett as Barratt (obviously a mistake)

Bentley is not recorded.

Carr M (Mulhuddart)

Duffy J (St John's, NB)

Treacy T (Killenaule)

John

Hi John,

Is it the more recent edition of the 1916 Rebellion Handbook you have, I have the original 1917 edition The Irish Times 'Sinn Fein Rebellion Handbook' on one of them CD things you put in the computer which makes it very easy to search. I was thinking of getting 1916 Rebellion Handbook but from the information you have given it appears to be a reprint of the 'Sinn Fein Rebellion Handbook'.

Although a very good reference source it does contain several inaccuracies. Of the 103 British Military listed as KIA I found 11 of them were wrong, either surname misspelled or wrong first names. It also has Neville Fryday as the youngest Soldier KIA but if you read the How Many Canadian Soldiers Died tread of this forum you will see rather compelling evidence to suggest this is not the case.

I think many authors tend to use the 'Sinn Fein Rebellion Handbook' for their research without checking other sources, the errors are repeated in so many publications they become 'Fact'. I have a list of 98 British Soldiers KIA in the Easter Rising on my website www.irishmedals.org

Regards,

Brendan.

[archangel9]

Hi Brendan,

Yes I have the more recent version of the book. Only got hold of it over the weekend so haven't had much time studying it yet.

John

[irishmen1916]

The Recent (1998/2009) reprint of the Irish Times 1916 Hand book is a complete reprint of the "Irish Times Sinn Fein Rebellion Hand Book" first printed in 1916, reprinted in 1917, no mistakes from the 1917 copy where corrected when it was reprinted after that. Its a good ref. book, but some details may be incorrect.

Peter