Johno7439 Posted 5 February , 2010 Share Posted 5 February , 2010 Does anyone have any info regarding insignia worn by the Division in 1917 - and in particular the 6th Bn Seaforth Highlanders if they wore any at all? Any help most appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 February , 2010 Share Posted 5 February , 2010 Does anyone have any info regarding insignia worn by the Division in 1917 - and in particular the 6th Bn Seaforth Highlanders if they wore any at all? Any help most appreciated Somewhere I have a sheet that has the unit insignia for the division. The 51st used coloured strips of cloth to indicate the battalion and I think the seniority within the brigade. I will post it when I find it. I can tell you the that the 1/4th Gordons (154 Bde) wore 3 pale blue bars. I'll see if I can find it - I promised it to someone else too. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 5 February , 2010 Share Posted 5 February , 2010 Chris, They wore the "HD" designation. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 February , 2010 Share Posted 5 February , 2010 Chris, They wore the "HD" designation. George Thanks George......"Harper's Duds" right? More seriously [when] did the HD insignia first get worn? Still looking for the sheet but am away from my home computer/drive. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 Chris, Earliest reference I can find,from the Divisional Pioneers History. Ypres. "The summer of 1917 was a very wet one,so the operations in Flanders were seriously hampered by mud and water. The "H.D." track was laid." George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 Chris, They wore the "HD" designation. George On vehicles, wagons etc - and perhaps painted on Brodies - but it wasn't worn on uniform until after the war. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john gregory Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 Is this the HD flash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 Certainly is... TT Royal Sussex...HD? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 You seem to have a bit of a problem on your hands there John. First, HD infantry didn't wear the HD sign until after the war. Second, as TT suggests, the Royal Sussex didn't form part of the HD at all in the war (or even in WWII when the sgn was most used). Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 It's a little more complicated , non kilted infantry did wear the HD sign in the last year of the war, whereas the kilted units did not. The colour & number of bars worn on the sleeve denoted the brigade/battalion. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 non kilted infantry did wear the HD sign in the last year of the was Hi Colin Could you tell me what HD infantry in 1918 - other than the 1/8th and 1/9th Royal Scots, and 1/5th DLI (all of whom I'm almost certain didn't wear the sign) - wasn't kilted? Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john gregory Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 You seem to have a bit of a problem on your hands there John. First, HD infantry didn't wear the HD sign until after the war. Second, as TT suggests, the Royal Sussex didn't form part of the HD at all in the war (or even in WWII when the sgn was most used). Best wishes, GT. It's not my tunic/jacket it was sold on Eb++ last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 I believe I may have seen this jacket several years ago; IIRC it didn't have any titles on it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 6 February , 2010 Share Posted 6 February , 2010 Hmmm.... Maybe someone did a little bit of research and came up with this.. The 2nd Highland Division was formed from the Home Service men of the Territorial Force units in the 51st Division, it was formed in Great Britain in January 1915. The Division remained in Great Britain. Infantry Units 51st Graduated Bn Royal Sussex Regt. 25 Feb 1918 - 11 Nov 1918. 51st Graduated obviously equals 51st Div. Chuck on a few random patches (not Great War looking anyway) and watch the moolah roll in. Maybe its the flash, but the patches don't look as dusty/knackered as the jacket. Having said that some very funny things happened with units in 1919, but not quite this funny. Besides, is it my failing memory, or was the original 51st Divisional badge not on a blue backing. I thought that was the WW2 version. It also looks very much like this currently available repro. Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krithia Posted 7 February , 2010 Share Posted 7 February , 2010 As Tocemma has said the closest match is the 64th Division, the 2nd line of the 51st Div. Within this division there was the 51st (Graduated) Battalion, the Royal Sussex Regiment and also the 52nd (Graduated) Battalion, the Royal Sussex Regiment. Home Service unit throughout the war although they may have got to the Rhineland in 1919. As far as I know the "HD" patch was not worn on infantry jackets during WW1. Krithia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Gt. Perhaps I made an error re. my remark about non kilted "infantry" wearing the flash, it was from memory of an insignia book read many moons ago. However upon doing a little research it appears that units of the division , engineers, div. artillery etc. did indeed use a "variety of HD flashes, varying in colour" My apologies if I confounded the thread but it does appear that the HD insignia was used before the end of the war, if not by the infantry. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john gregory Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Is this chap a HD signaller ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Gt. Perhaps I made an error re. my remark about non kilted "infantry" wearing the flash, it was from memory of an insignia book read many moons ago. However upon doing a little research it appears that units of the division , engineers, div. artillery etc. did indeed use a "variety of HD flashes, varying in colour" My apologies if I confounded the thread but it does appear that the HD insignia was used before the end of the war, if not by the infantry. Colin. With you. Chappell, while pretty good, is not foolproof for accuracy; and I've never seen a verifiably wartime photo with the sign being worn on uniform. I appreciate that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but the odd photograph doesn't half help! I've seen the image John's posted of the signaller before; and have seen (actually) other examples of divisional insignia overlaid on brassards, but, again, not worn on the uniform per se. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudcatsgt Posted 15 September , 2016 Share Posted 15 September , 2016 I know this is an old post and hope someone can help. But in reference to the HD brigade badges worn....is there any information on how these were issued? For instance, the 154th Bde has 3 vertical bars. Were these just issued as 6 individual strips, or were they put on a backing of khaki serge?, to keep it consistant? Or was this work of a company tailor? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted 15 September , 2016 Share Posted 15 September , 2016 Good morning, From the information that I have The 6th Bn Seaforth Highlanders wore two red bars. Regards Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudcatsgt Posted 15 September , 2016 Share Posted 15 September , 2016 Thank you Arthur. There were different number of bars based on the brigades seniority, etc. But the main part of my question, were these badges made (sewn to a backing) for the individual to apply? Or were they just given some fabric and told to have at it? Cheers, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted 15 September , 2016 Share Posted 15 September , 2016 Good afternoon Joe From the types that I've seen they have been sewn onto a piece of khaki material, and going by the neatness of the stitching they were more than likely sewn on by the garrison tailors. Going back to 1917 I wouldn't have thought that many men were that deft with a needle and thread! But, I could be wrong with that statement! Regards Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudcatsgt Posted 15 September , 2016 Share Posted 15 September , 2016 Arthur, I was thinking the same thing. I have seen others that were mounted to khaki, and some (the single solid geometric shapes) that were not. I agree that to ensure some regularity. Thanks for the insight. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 16 September , 2016 Share Posted 16 September , 2016 (edited) I have not seen SD Jackets in flesh with the insignia on but I have looked at several quite good photos of the 1/4th Gordons' Brigade (154) insignia which was made up of 3 pale blue bars. On the photos they appear to be three individual strips of material (felt?) stitched directly on with no backing. (a bit like the WWII arm of service strips) There are some images in the IWM collection of the 4th Battalion in 1917 that show this insignia on jackets and overcoats. I also have a photo somewhere I will try and post later. Chris SEE here (left side seated with child and beyond) and closer here (although not quite as clear) Edited 16 September , 2016 by 4thGordons add link to image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 16 September , 2016 Share Posted 16 September , 2016 Not sure that it is of great use to anyone, but you might find the chart on my page here to be of interest: http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/51st-highland-division/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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