archangel9 Posted 28 January , 2010 Share Posted 28 January , 2010 Does anyone have access to a list of Connaught Rangers who mutinied in India in 1920? I see at least 3 sources but don’t have access to any of them at the moment – The Devil to Pay - The Mutiny of the Connaught Rangers, India. by Anthony Babington. The Connaught Rangers by T P Kilfeather and HO 144/2511 - List of 'Connaught Ranger prisoners' sentenced for mutiny I would be grateful for a look up for a Joseph Woods on the list. Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_doyle Posted 28 January , 2010 Share Posted 28 January , 2010 I have a copy of Sam Pollock's "Mutiny for the Cause". Mentions a Sgt Woods DCM, an Englishman, who joined the mutineers. Doesn't give his forename. The website below indicates his forename was Joseph http://irishmedals.org/gpage6.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. J. Clarke Posted 28 January , 2010 Share Posted 28 January , 2010 I have a copy of Sam Pollock's "Mutiny for the Cause". Mentions a Sgt Woods DCM, an Englishman, who joined the mutineers. Doesn't give his forename. The website below indicates his forename was Joseph http://irishmedals.org/gpage6.html His Number was 11056. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 28 January , 2010 Share Posted 28 January , 2010 Sergeant J Woods won the Military Medal and was tried on the 25th of August, 1921. Thats all I know about him but there is an article in the Roscommon Herland on Saturday February 18 (1920 or 1921) and gives the story of the mutiny smuggled out of Dartmoor and printed. Sgt Woods is mentioned with all the rest of the lads. Its worth reading but difficult as the print is so small. Regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 28 January , 2010 Share Posted 28 January , 2010 John See: http://www.troopsoutmovement.com/oliversarmychap4.htm Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 28 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2010 Johnny/PJ, Thanks very much. I am certain this is my man. I think the web site - http://irishmedals.org/gpage6.html has made a mistake with the numbers though. Thomas Moran - 15240 Sergeant Joseph Woods - 11056 neither exist. Whereas Sergeant Joseph Woods, 15240, Connaught Rangers does. MM (as 10280 Leinster Reg.) http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/298...pplements/12054 Cheers. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 28 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2010 Tom/Dave, Brilliant! Thanks! I think I'm allowed to post his MIC under the new rules as I am researching him - There is also a 2nd Card indicating MM and the Bristol branch of the British Legion applying for restoration of his medals in what looks like 1922 but could be 1942. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 28 January , 2010 Share Posted 28 January , 2010 Hi, I think no 15240 would have been issued in Sept 1918 in the Connaught Rangers 15200 was issued 17 Sept 1918 to a man transferred from the Leinster Regiment 15206 was issued 21 Sept 1918 to a man transferred from the Leinster Regiment Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 29 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2010 Hi, I think no 15240 would have been issued in Sept 1918 in the Connaught Rangers 15200 was issued 17 Sept 1918 to a man transferred from the Leinster Regiment 15206 was issued 21 Sept 1918 to a man transferred from the Leinster Regiment Regards Mark Mark, 15200 and 15206 were both transferred from the Leinster Regiment to 5th Bn. Connaught Rangers. As 5th Bn. were the only Rangers in F & F at the time is it safe to assume that 15240 also transfered to 5th rather than shipping out to the 1st in Palestine? Cheers. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 29 January , 2010 Share Posted 29 January , 2010 Mark, 15200 and 15206 were both transferred from the Leinster Regiment to 5th Bn. Connaught Rangers. As 5th Bn. were the only Rangers in F & F at the time is it safe to assume that 15240 also transfered to 5th rather than shipping out to the 1st in Palestine? Cheers. John Hi John, Yes I think it would be safe to assume a transfer to the 5th Battalion. I have only seen mention men form the Royal Irish Rifles being transferred to the 1st Battalion in Palestine at this time Sept 1918. Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. J. Clarke Posted 29 January , 2010 Share Posted 29 January , 2010 Hi John, Yes I think it would be safe to assume a transfer to the 5th Battalion. I have only seen mention men form the Royal Irish Rifles being transferred to the 1st Battalion in Palestine at this time Sept 1918. Regards Mark Looking at the appendix at the back of the book written by T. P. Kilfeather I find that the No. 15240 is accredited to a Thomas Moran. Sergt. Joseph Woods, 11056. The numbers of most of the men mentioned started with 35, etc. -- like James Joseph Daly, 35025. Some of the others' numbers started with 32, etc. (all five digits). Charles Kerrigan, 1153; Sergt. John Loyd, 9172; John Oliver, 40126; Patrick Willis (8926); Patrick Donohoe's number was a six-digit number, 322582 -- was this a mistake of the writer or printer? Incidentally, two men from Ballina, Co. Mayo, took part in this mutiny -- James Joseph Devers (32609), and Patrick Joseph Mangan (35250). They were both from the same street in Ballina. They say that James Joseph died in abject poverty, but I had the pleasure of meeting Patrick Joseph Mangan, who spent his working life in Glasgow. He came regularly to Ballina on holidays. Hope this helps. P. J. Clarke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 29 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2010 PJ, This website seems to reproduce the numbers in Kilfeather's book (I don't have the book). http://irishmedals.org/gpage6.html Any I have checked so far are wrong. Don't know if this is down to the writer, his source or the printer, but I have yet to find a correct match. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 29 January , 2010 Share Posted 29 January , 2010 Hi, The 1st&2nd Battalions had a different numbering sequence from the 5th Battalion. For the 1st&2nd Battalions I have found numders issued so far: 32045 1918 Feb 8 32049 1918 Oct 12 32199 1918 Apr 30 32527 1919 Sept 11 32657 1919 Oct 10 So I think the 15*** numbers may have been issued by the 5th Battalion during 1918, but I am not 100% sure of this yet. Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. J. Clarke Posted 29 January , 2010 Share Posted 29 January , 2010 Hi, The 1st&2nd Battalions had a different numbering sequence from the 5th Battalion. For the 1st&2nd Battalions I have found numders issued so far: 32045 1918 Feb 8 32049 1918 Oct 12 32199 1918 Apr 30 32527 1919 Sept 11 32657 1919 Oct 10 So I think the 15*** numbers may have been issued by the 5th Battalion during 1918, but I am not 100% sure of this yet. Regards Mark Hi Mark and comrades: The 1st Battalion of the Connaught Rangers were based at Jullundur and it was from there, after the great heat of the day had come to an end, on the 27th June, 1920, and it was in the canteen of the 1st Battalion, that the first strains of discontent started to take place. P.J.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 30 January , 2010 Share Posted 30 January , 2010 Hi, I think this might be the part of charge list Regards Mark 35232 Private James Joseph Daly 32543 Private Michael Fitzgerald 35254 Private John Joseph Buckley 32383 Private Patrick Hynes 32386 Private Eugene Egan 32295 Private John Kelly 32395 Private Michael Kearns 32460 Private Michael Kearney 32384 Private John Daly 35185 Private John Joseph Gleeson 8519 Private John Oliver 40196 Private Patrick McGrath 32292 Corporal Patrick Kelly 35058 Private John Joseph Loftus 32582 Private Patrick Mannion (crossed out) 32328 Private James Joseph Devers 32609 Private Patrick Scally 32431 Private William Shallow 32678 Private Patrick McConnell 32791 Private James Pendergast 35084 Private William Burland 32619 Private Francis Joseph Moran (crossed out) 32062 Private Patrick Joseph Mangan 35250 Private Patrick Cherry 10007 Lance Corporal James Hewson 32424 Private James Gorman 32768 Private Thomas Devine 32472 Private John James Moorehouse 32245 Private Charles Kerrigan 1153 Boy Michael Conlon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 30 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2010 Mark, Was going to go through that list and try to correct them all but you are way ahead of me Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 30 January , 2010 Share Posted 30 January , 2010 Hi, Charges from the Charge Sheet for the above list of men Regards Mark 1st Charge AA Sect 7 (3a) Joining in a mutiny in His Majesty’s military force in they at Solon on the 30th June and 1st July 1920, joined in a mutiny by combining among themselves and with other soldiers of the 1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers to refuse to perform military duty and to offer assistance to their superior officers in the execution of their duty, in pursuance of which Private James Joseph Daly and seventy men or thereabouts on the 30th June, proceeded to the Officers Mess and there demanded the release from the Quarter Guard of Lance Corporal Keenan and Private Kelly both of the 1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers and further stated their intention of not parading as ordered, on the following day and Private Kelly and Private Kerrigan on the 1st July, 1920 broke open the racks in which the arms of the Detachment of the 1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers were secured and the men of the said Detachment thereby improperly and without authority took possession of their arms and the said Private James Joseph Daly and fifty men or thereabouts attacked with naked bayonets in their hands, on the night of the 1st July, 1920 the magazine in which the arms had subsequently been deposited and which was defended by a Guard of officers and men of said Detachment. 2nd Charge (alternative to 1st Charge) AA Sect 7 (3b) Being present at and not using their utmost endeavors to suppress a mutiny in His Majesty’s military forces in that they at Solon, on the 30th June, and the 1st July 1920, being present at the mutiny set out in the particulars of this first charge made no reasonable endeavor to suppress the same. 3rd Charge against 32460 Private Michael Kearney (alternative to 1st & 2nd Charges) Sect 7 (3a) Joining in a Mutiny of His Majesty’s military forces in that he at Solon, on the 1st July 1920, when Private James Joseph Daly and others of the 1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers, were engaged in a mutiny, as set out in the particulars of the first charge, joined in the said mutiny by saying in the hearing of the fatigue party which had been ordered to prepare the Gymnasium for the use of troops about to arrive with a view to suppressing the mutiny. ‘It will take fixed bayonets to open the Gymnasium’ or words to that effect and thereafter by proceeding with the intention of inciting the mutineers to attack the said fatigue party, at the same time saying to Sergeant McNamara 1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers, ‘You will remember this when I come back’ or words to that effect. 4th Charge against 32292 Corporal Kelly Sect 7 (4) After coming to the knowledge of an intended mutiny in His Majesty’s military forces, failing to inform without delay his commanding officer of the same in that he, at Solon, on the 30th June, 1920 having been informed by Lance Corporal Murphy of the arrival of Lance Corporal Keenan and Private Kelly both of the 1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers the intention of the said Lance Corporal Keenan and Private Kelly, being as he well knew to excite a mutiny among the Detachment of the 1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers failed to inform his commanding officer thereof. 5th Charge against 32472 Private Moorehouse AA Sect 9 (1) Disobeying in such a manner as to show a willful defiance of authority a lawful command given personally by his superior officer in the execution of his office in that he at Solon, on the 30th June, 1920 when personally ordered by Corporal Patrick Kelly, 1st Battalion, The Connaught Rangers to parade for guard, did not do so, at the same time saying ‘I will not go on Guard, and if anything turns up I will be one of the first man to ground my arms’ or words to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 30 January , 2010 Share Posted 30 January , 2010 Hi These Connaught Rangers were mentioned in the book 'THEY PUT THE FLAG A-FLYIN’, by Kathleen Hegarty Thorneas as involved in the Mutiny Regards Mark Conlon, Michael later joined Free State Army, from Boyle Daly, John Davis, Francis Owen died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Devers, James J. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Hawes, Joseph died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Hayes, Addie later joined Garda Siochana, from Boyle Kearns, Michael died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Kelly, Patrick J. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Lally, Stephen died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Lynch, Jack Lynnott, John died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) McGowan, John from Boyle Miranda, John died in prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Oliver, James died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Prendergast, John F. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Scally, Paddy later joined Garda Siochana, from Boyle Shallow, William died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Walshe, Joseph died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. J. Clarke Posted 30 January , 2010 Share Posted 30 January , 2010 HiThese Connaught Rangers were mentioned in the book 'THEY PUT THE FLAG A-FLYIN’, by Kathleen Hegarty Thorneas as involved in the Mutiny Regards Mark Conlon, Michael later joined Free State Army, from Boyle Daly, John Davis, Francis Owen died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Devers, James J. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Hawes, Joseph died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Hayes, Addie later joined Garda Siochana, from Boyle Kearns, Michael died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Kelly, Patrick J. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Lally, Stephen died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Lynch, Jack Lynnott, John died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) McGowan, John from Boyle Miranda, John died in prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Oliver, James died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Prendergast, John F. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Scally, Paddy later joined Garda Siochana, from Boyle Shallow, William died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Walshe, Joseph died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) ------------------- Hi: I understand that some of the original mutineers decided to swap sides and gave evidence against their former comrades. Is this evidence available in any form, and where can it be had? P. J. Clarke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 Private William Coman, alias 'Bill the Black' died in the County Home in Thurles, Tipperary in 1968 I am surprised no-one has him in their bits and bobs. He was sentenced to 15 years for his part in the mutiny and spent time confined in Wellington Barracks , and Maidstone when they came back to Blighty. Regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 31 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2010 Tom, Did William Coman have WW1 service? Can't find a MIC or any records for him. This raises another point for me, which someone might be able to answer, about the men who had WW1 service and continued to serve with the Rangers post war, (e.g. Sergeant Joseph Woods, 15240, L/Cpl Patrick Dyer, 11056) and who were involved in the mutiny. Would the MoD hold their service records? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollgo Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 HiThese Connaught Rangers were mentioned in the book 'THEY PUT THE FLAG A-FLYIN’, by Kathleen Hegarty Thorneas as involved in the Mutiny Regards Mark Conlon, Michael later joined Free State Army, from Boyle Daly, John Davis, Francis Owen died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Devers, James J. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Hawes, Joseph died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Hayes, Addie later joined Garda Siochana, from Boyle Kearns, Michael died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Kelly, Patrick J. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Lally, Stephen died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Lynch, Jack Lynnott, John died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) McGowan, John from Boyle Miranda, John died in prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Oliver, James died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Prendergast, John F. died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Scally, Paddy later joined Garda Siochana, from Boyle Shallow, William died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Walshe, Joseph died after release from prison (claimed due to mistreatment in prison) Hi Mark. Any information in the book about how these men died, and how long after leaving prison that they died? Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 Yes Bill Coman had ww1 service and was injured by shrapnel in Egypt in 1918. He was also in the Irish National Army and the Royal Engineers in ww2. His brother and uncle died in ww1 Regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 31 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2010 Tom, All MIC matches - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...mp;mediaarray=* Did William join the Rangers after WW1? Also I wonder do the MoD still hold his service records (see post 21) or were the mutineers' records held elsewhere? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 No thats not him. I am not sure where their records were held but I have some of Bills that were with his file and contains items from Maidstone prison, charge sheet, Application for release from there on the death of Michael Collins, etc. There were other articles in regional papers about the mutiny but I don't remember coming across any with your man in them. Bill joined the Connaught Rangers before the end of the war as he was injured in Egypt by shrapnel in 1918. I have a panoramic photograph of 1000 Rangers just before they left for India in 1919 somewheres but I cannot recognise any of them except Bill. I got some great help from Julian Putkowski (Shot at Dawn) who knows a lot of people and went out of his way for me. Regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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