"A real whiteman"

[Waddell]

I came across this expression contained within a description of a man in a Red Cross Enquiry File.

"He was a real whiteman-a thorough gentleman and a good soldier."

Anyone know the origin of the expression? I gather it is a common expression and was not used in a racial sense?

Scott.

[jim_davies]

In the US see;

"Great Blues Scams

The Blues Excuse draws a part of our inspiration from the Blues Ethic which developed around the turn of last century.

Most early blues performers were negroes. And they had big problems getting any exposure in the USA at that time because of entrenched racism in the music publishing business.

But in 1919, a blues performer called Crooked Leg Brown took advantage of this situation to pull off one of the greatest scams in blues music history.

Crooked Leg paid a drunken white cotton farmer 10c to pose for a picture, then paid another 5c to buy a copy of the sheet music for "St Louis Blues" (a well-known tune in Alabama at the time) which he neatly copied onto a blank score sheet.

Then he concocted a biography for a fictitious character he named "Paul Whiteman, King of Jazz" and shelled out another 10c for a post office box and some stamps to mail the whole lot off to a well-known New York music publishing house.

The idea of a Southern "King of Jazz" (handily called "Whiteman") singing a negro blues song galvanized the music publishers and soon caught the imagination of Americans nation-wide.

Within a short time the Whiteman cover of St Louis Blues shot to the top of what passed for pops in those days and fat royalty cheques began filling Crooked Leg's Alabama PO box.

By the time the whole fraud was exposed 6 months later - to the great embarrassment of everyone involved - Crooked Leg had turned his 25c investment into around $25,000 (a big sum in those days!) and taken to the hills.

For many years afterwards, this wonderful scam was immortalised in the phrase "You're a real Whiteman" (which can still be heard in many old Hollywood films to this day)."

Jim

[dycer]

Scott,

From a soldier's memoirs, when during the Battle of the Somme, he and many others were out of of the line,and found cigarettes,etc were difficult to buy.A rumour started that a delivery was expected at a Forces Canteen and an orderly queue formed.Things started to get ugly when it was noticed that Officers,who had not served in the front line, were using their rank to get to the front of the queue.

It is entitled "A White Man".

"We,at the rear of the queue,voiced our disapproval of these tactics but just then occurred a diversion.A slim lithe officer pushing a very seedy looking bike came along,and,throwing his machinery carelessly against a guy-rope took his place at the end of the queue.

Then all along the line ran the news that the "bloke" who took his turn like any other Tommy was none other than the "Prince of Wales"-"Edward the Eighth""as he was to be for a short time only.

In the "Tommies'" phrase,"A real White Man."

George

[museumtom]

We had an expression over here in Ireland 'play the whiteman' meaning to be fair in your dealings. I have not heard it for a long time now as I am sure it is not politically correct.

Regards.

Tom.

[Rockdoc]

I'm with Tom on this one. I've not heard it for a very long time and it wasn't at all common even when I was young but a cry of "Oh, play the white man, will you?" meant that someone had been behaving in an underhanded or anti-social fashion.

Keith

[taylov]

I'm with Tom on this one. I've not heard it for a very long time and it wasn't at all common even when I was young but a cry of "Oh, play the white man, will you?" meant that someone had been behaving in an underhanded or anti-social fashion. Keith

It was certainly still very commonly used into the 1970s in the Luton area where I lived. Most often in the phrase "play the white man, ref" when a decision of the referee went against your side or when someone had failed to pay for his round in the pub.

I never heard the phrase used with any direct racial implication but it declined along with other similar phrases in the "modern era".

Tony

[Paul Reed]

There's an inscription on a grave on the Somme which reads "One of the white men".

Phrases like 'Play The White Man' are very much part of contemporary literature of that period.

[Desmond7]

Museum is correct.

I feel the phrase was born in the era when Empire was dominant and the white man was deemed to be superior to various natives etc. That was the 'way it was' ...

Would be used without any real thought by soldiers/civilians of all ranks/status ... can be linked with the ethos of 'play the game' ...

To 'play the white man' was generally understood to mean: be fair, courageous, honest etc etc

To be deemed a 'real white man' indicated deep respect. I have several similar descriptions from 14-18 era letters.

Des

[truthergw]

It had the mainly unthinking but ingrained racism of European society of the time built in. That a white man was morally superior to one of ' coloured ' race. It marches along with ' yellow peril' and the white man's burden. I pass over the special problems of the United States forces. It is exemplified in the open racism of the novels of Jack London and Joseph Conrad. It is one of the facets of the men of the BEF which point up the differences to present day norms. Hardly a man in the BEF or the New Armies would not have taken it for granted that he was superior to a sepoy or askari. In exactly the same way, the Poilu knew he was better than a Senegalese and the Germans were genuinely horrified to find that the Entente were putting non-whites into the field against them.

[ianw]

Must confess that the "Play the whiteman" phrase meaning play fair is in my reserve vocabulary- i.e phrases that I realise are un-pc/archaic and therefore I attempt not to use them. To put this in context I was brought up by racists - good folk who were genteel, kind racists but essentially Victorian and keeping in mind "give me the child", I am a product of them. As has been said, this phrase was born in a different age.

[Waddell]

Thank you gents for educating me on this expression. It is one I have not heard used over the years and I'm not surprised why.

It was used by a sergeant reporting on the death of a lieutenant who had risen through the ranks and appears a very popular man, so as you say commonly used and appropriate for the time only.

Scott.

[Desmond7]

Your Lieutenant wasn't called Tennant by any chance?

Des

[Waddell]

Your Lieutenant wasn't called Tennant by any chance?

No Des.

Scott.

[Desmond7]

hen I saw you were in Australia, this guy sprang to mind .. note the comment from one of his men.

TENNANT, THOMAS Lieutenant Australian Machine Gun Corps 5th Coy. (29) 14/11/1916. Son of Robert and Elizabeth Tennant, Francis Street,Ballymena ; husband of M. Tennant, of 4, Lothair Avenue, Belfast, Ireland. Native of Ballymena, Co. Antrim.Buried Warlencourt Mil . cem.

Ballymena Observer, March 23 1917 - The Australian Record Office, London, has notified Mrs. M. Tennant of Lothair Avenue, Belfast that her husband, Lt. Thomas Tennant, Machine Gun Coy. Australian Imperial Forces, reported missing in November 1916 is now returned as having been killed in action on the 12th of that month.

Unofficial testimony has also been received by Mrs. Tennant through the Australian Red Cross Society that her husband was killed by a shell during an attack he was leading. One of the men who reports to this effect states that was buried in the field, and adds:-

"He was one of the whitest, and it was a sore blow when he fell."

The deceased officer, who was 29 years of age, was the eldest son of Mr. Robert Tennant of Francis Street, Harryville, Ballymena. He emigrated to the Commonwealth six years ago and on the declaration of war enlisted as a private in the 19th Btn. Australian Infantry. Before coming to Europe he served in the capture of New Guinea and subsequently in Egypt whence he proceeded to Gallipoli and subsequently to France.

In March 1916, he was promoted to a commission for gallantry and devotion to duty. Three months later he came home on leave during which time he was married to Margaret, youngest daughter of the late Mr. W. Moore, of Tempo, Co. Fermanagh and Mrs. Carrothers of 4 Lothair Avenue, Belfast.

[Neil Mackenzie]

One of the Red Cross reports on my great-uncle includes:-

"He was one of the finest men in the Battery, and was a real white man, much liked by his mates".

Neil

[Waddell]

Certainly looks to have been in common use.

[Steve Bramley]

Hi,

I think that in this context it probably was a reference to 'play the whiteman'.

But, I've also heard (again not for quite a while) The expression 'He was whiter than white'. In this case it would infer that 'he' was 'Squeaky Clean' or honest and reliable...a real gentle-man.

I'm sure that in this example 'White' has no racist implications, but rather refers to colour in an almost biblical sense i.e. white as in good, black as in evil (light and dark, day and night etc) and would perhaps go back much further than Victorian times.

But I could be wrong!

I like Jim's example.

Cheers,

Steve.

[SiegeGunner]

The expression has fallen out of favour because it is considered by some to carry the implication that anyone who is not 'a white man' cannot be honest, upright and 'a thoroughly good chap'. Originating in the imperial era, it meant primarily someone who lived up to or exceeded the high standards of character and conduct expected of Europeans in colonial postings. I suspect that 'play the white man' is of later origin, from a period when standards were changing and it was sometimes necessary to appeal to the better nature of someone to whom honourable behaviour was no longer instinctive.

If the expression had a barb, it was directed not so much at native peoples as at the welter of dodgy characters of various ethnicities who proliferated around the fringes of European colonial society - the sort of chap that Herbert Lom specialised in portraying in films.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

It was a contemporary expression and should be viewed as such. European society was not the only one (then or now) to have ingrained racism. The Chinese and Japanese for example were not noted for their racial tolerance.

[west coast]

it may have been a contemporary expression in the era we are looking at, but i think it was a leftover from the old colonial times. i think its an expression that relates to whitemen in the colonies dealing with each other ie whitemen don`t cheat or 'see off' [for the want of better words]on each other. the reason i come to this is. i remember the expression being used very often back in the sixties while in the navy, `specially when the grog was being shared, or the mess grub was being divided out or anything like that.

mike.

[geraint]

Thinking of opposites - terms like 'blackguard' and 'blackamoor' are eighteenth century words of abuse; it makes sense for 'white' to be of contrary meaning. It may be a far older than Empire days.

My gut feeling is, as outlined above by both Tom and Mick, that it does refer to the unthinking belief in the superiority of white values and dealings in colonial times.

Now what irks me is the derogatory term 'to welsh' on someone; ie to double deal or withdraw and renegade. Someone who welshed would certainly not be considered a good whiteman!

[Rockdoc]

There are other derogatory racial terms, of course. Dutch Courage, for example, which suggests they needed to be drunk to be brave or French Leave for an unauthorised absence. Many if not all of these originated as a means of reducing the apparent threat of a nation's enemies - propaganda if you like - and entered the language at a time when such feelings were being actively encouraged. Times have changed and they're dropping out of use, sometimes for very good reason! My younger daughter was indignant and protested when a lecturer used the phrase "n****r in the woodpile" to describe an anomalous situation but a significant number of the group were non-white so you would have thought he would have been a bit more careful.

Keith

[Jim Clay]

In the US see;

"Great Blues Scams

The Blues Excuse draws a part of our inspiration from the Blues Ethic ....the phrase "You're a real Whiteman" (which can still be heard in many old Hollywood films to this day)."

Jim

Ahem! Nice jest, but all utter tosh.

[Steven Broomfield]

Spanish practices, Mr C; Spanish practices.

[SiegeGunner]

French Leave for an unauthorised absence.

The French for which is "filer à l'anglaise" ...