MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 The following is an open letter forwarded to Kevan Jones, Minister for Veterans on 3rd November last. The letter has been distributed to a number of interested parties including, inter alia, the Commissioners of the CWGC, members of the All-Party Parliamentary War Graves Group, the media and others. It concerns the badly mishandled 'Working List' that was incompetently drawn up by certain functionaries at the CWGC in the first instance and, thereafter, ineptly handled by functionaries at the MoD who possess neither the specialist knowledge nor the expertise to make decisions about the composition of the List. There are a number of pages and appendices to the open letter. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 The postings of the open letter and appendices have been completed. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 We can expect the MoD to foul up but this is a stain on the proud record of the CWGC and surely it is in their interests to get this sorted pronto. The Minister needs to appoint a panel of three Great War historians who have total credibility to sort out the mess. Could I sent a copy of this post to my local MP with a covering letter demanding action? For example the 2nd Line TF included the Warwicks. I live in the ancient county so the issue is relevant to my MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Well done Mel ... fingers crossed they take heed of your letter. Time is of the essence. Good luck to you all. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 10 November , 2009 Share Posted 10 November , 2009 Well worded Mel. Clearly the decision making has been left up to a group of civil servants who have absolutely no expertise on deciphering historical documents and in particular the B.103. That they are not experts in this field is not their fault and they shouldn't be condemned for it however their staunch refusal to accept the evidence of those with a far greater understanding, potentially depriving a soldier of his identification, is disgraceful. Obviously they believe the entry on the B.103 refers to Nokes dying as a POW on 5th October 1916. What they don't understand is that particular date only refers to the day the entry was made in the file and not the actual date the event took place. The actual date of his death is recorded under the 'Date of Casualty' column to the right and clearly indicates 19/07/1916. As for the mention of being a POW.......well there are many similar notations on the Australian service files for soldiers in that working list. From our research it appears that similar notations of POW in service files stem from initial statements made by surviving soldiers along the lines of, "I last saw Joe Bloggs badly wounded in the German trenches and we had to leave him there so he's probably a POW". Hence his record was marked "missing, possibly POW" but when the reports came through about their deaths the record was changed to "died as POW". Unfortunately these entries are unreliable and certainly do not preclude anyone from having been buried at Pheasant Wood. If this is the basis of the SPVA claim for Nokes to be omitted from the list then they are deluding themselves. Stick to your guns Mel - someone needs to stand up for Stanley Nokes. Cheers, Tim L. P.S. "Ethereal panel of experts". Isn't it amazing that they always seem to crop up as a source of confirmation but no one can ever tell you who they are??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 10 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2009 This post is just a little additional open address to the pantaloons that created this problem (the pantaloons are regular visitors to this section of the GWF). Your 'careful cross-referencing of casualty records' obviously failed to disclose that both the 6th and 7th Battalions of The Cameron Highlanders were part of the 15th Scottish Division. In the light of this 'new' information perhaps you will be good enough to re-check the war diaries, regimental histories, service papers and other National Archive material that you have extensively relied upon in making your highly informed decisions. Oh and by the way, you do have my sympathy. It took extensive research to discover that George Ford 18th Btn DLI was killed in action on 20 July 1916 at the Leipzig Salient on the Somme whilst attached to the 1/6th West Yorks; as it did to establish that Horace Shepherd of the 14th Battalion Yorks & Lancs was also killed in action at Caterpillar Wood on the Somme on 20th July 1916 whilst attached to the 7th South Lancs; as it did to establish that Robert Shephard of the 1/1st Herts was killed in action during a trench raid conducted on enemy lines at Festubert on 19 July 1916 between 10.40 to 10.50 pm (give or take a few minutes) and so on. Oh and please do not even bother subjecting me to more tiresome threats of suing me for defammation. Please use your expertise and extensive research skills to look up 'fair comment' in a GCSE law book. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 10 November , 2009 Share Posted 10 November , 2009 Well Done Mel ... KTMA Lest We Forget!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 10 November , 2009 Share Posted 10 November , 2009 Mel, I do believe the very same pantaloons were contacted by a kind researcher from an English local history society who was doing some checking on an English born Aussie soldier for me. She was told in a rather curt fashion......"we're not interested in the Australians". So much for the spirirt of co-operation. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 I would have thought that the Daily Telegraph might well be interested in this story - have they been advised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 11 November , 2009 Share Posted 11 November , 2009 I assume that the epithet "pantaloons" is being applied here in the sense of foolish old men a la pantomime? If so, which individuals exactly are being labelled thus? Not having been involved with the Fromelles Project I don't know the ins and out of all this - although reading your letter I can easily sympathise with your attempts to get officialdom to acknowledge their shortcomings and rectify matters - but having now formally written to the Minister concerned to set out the concerns is there not a danger of alienating people further by personalising things? Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 11 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2009 Andy Sorry, I do not follow your point. Are you suggesting that nincompoop is a more accurate term? Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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