Tyne Cot Cemetery

[Martin Hornby]

I cannot believe what I saw occur at Tyne Cot Cemetery on Wednesday 21st April.

The weather was very good with glorious sunshine, there was alot of school children behaving very well, and the usual coach parties.

Then from the lefthand end of the memorial I saw the blushing bride and groom posing for pictures. They were encouraged by 1 stills cameraman and 2 video cameramen.

Wishing to check the memorial wall registers I felt a little uncomfortable going into the happy scene. But to add insult to injury comment was made when I had the nerve to walk into the photo shoot to get to the registers! Words were then exchanged expressing the view that the bride and groom should be blushing out of embarrassment and shame, not in happiness. This comments fell on very deaf ears.

I now seems that Tyne Cot is no longer a place of remembrance but a local wedding photo shoot location.

No doubt they will be holding childrens parties and jumble sales there next.

Martin

[john w.]

One wonders what the background will look like in relation to a wedding shoot. Very strange..

John

[stevew]

Martin,

words fail me............wedding!! Tyne Cot!! what is the World coming to.....no respect..........

[Malcolm]

I find this bl^^dy insulting.

Aye

Malcolm

[Bob Coulson]

Must admit I find this totally out of order.

Wonder what CWGC think of it?

Do they know that this sort of thing is happening?

Bob.

[Tom Morgan]

I accept that people might find this distasteful but I must disgree and say that I think it's lovely that local people should want to have their wedding pictures taken in Tyne Cot (and other) cemeteries.

For their wedding pictures, peope choose a beautiful spot which means a lot to them - a place which they want to become associated with their happy day for ever. Just like any married couple anywhere.

Local people, I am sure, are in no doubt about what the cemeteries represent but there is an additional aspect for them. The cemeteries are well-know and very beautiful local landmarks, a part of their daily lives and places which mean a great deal to them.

The married couple might have been showing more respect and affection for our dead soldiers than you might think.

Tom

PS - I don't attempt to excuse anyone for any critical comments when a visitor wanted to look at the Register.

[bkristof]

As a local i find this a sad event.

I excuse myself for them.

But i also think that for some people who live nearby it is no longer a burial place but just a landscape scene. I do not agree on that, but i try to understand them.

What i really don't understand is that they took the right to command people who were walking there, wanted to see the register...

Sad, sad , sad...

cheers,

kristof

[Guest Brummy]

Hi,

It is a long time since I heard the Policy of the CWGC on this, so maybe Terry Denham can update this info. As far as I know If the wedding party + photographers numbers more than 15 this counts as a large ceremony and requires written permition from the CWGC. If it was a smaller number than that priority of access under Belgian Law is on the side of people visiting war graves and it is up to the wedding party to get out of your way.

Speaking for myself I have nothing against wedding photo's in cemeteries but they must take second place when in the way of people visiting war graves.

Brum

[stiletto_33853]

Well now this is something new,

The married couple could be showing respect as Tom says, but I have a feeling it is because of the serenity and beauty of this place, but who knows.

Certainly I would like to know the stance of the CWGC on this as Bob has said. Martin, one has to ask of the re-action of the other people there such as the Coach parties you mentioned, it would be interesting to hear of there re-action to.

As regards to the exchange when you went to the registers, that in itself I found totally disrespectful and out of order.

Overall though I must admit to finding this occurence distasteful and am not a little suprised to hear of your vocal displeasure when inspecting the registers.

Andy

[gem22]

I can well understand how upset someone cna be when faced with this type of situation. My immediate reactions would probably be similar to Martin's. Yet one has to accept Tom Morgan's point about the possibility that the wedding party were showing respect in their own, albeit slightly different, way.

Would I be right in thinking that the biggest issue here is the access to the registers? If the photo shoot had been arranged so that cemetery visitors were not inconvenienced then it would have been less of a problem?

If that is the case surely a certain amount of mediation by the local office of the CWGC could help. One assumes that the still photographer at least would be a professional from Ieper or near by. If CWGC had a quiet word with the local photographers and asked them to show a little consideration when positioning the shoot none of this need happen again.

I would hate to see anyone waving a big stick and forbidding people from holding photo shoots on CWGC property. If you upset the local population too much then you take the risk that some may retaliate by vandalising the cemeteries. Something that none of us would want to see happen.

After all we know what happened when the Austro-Hungarian empire waved a big stick at Serbia in 1914.

So whilst I'm equally upset by the lack of consideration shown to someone who was showing his respect to the dead let us not blow things out of all proportion.

Garth

[iain mchenry]

I also find this very disturbing, I cannot understand why someone would like their wedding photos in a cemetary Military or Otherwise. To me it seems like they just want the architectural layout as the photo background and are not there for any other reason. I am a bit of a keen amateur photographer and have been around a few of the Photo shops in Ypres and Poperinghe. There are a few photographers advertising wedding photos of 'Happy couples' standing, lounging and lying in the vicinity of a CWGC Cross of Sacrifice. To me a cemetary, and especially a Military cemetary, is a place where we go to mourn/celebrate the end of a persons life and reflect and educate on what they have done. Please tell me if I am wrong but isnt a wedding and everything associated with it not a celebration of the beginning of a 'New Life' together. It just seems wierd and downright disrespectful that couples would choose a CWGC location as a location for their photoshoot.

Iain 'Not Married' McHenry

[dycer]

Can I be philosophical for a second.

I fully respect the point of view that has been put forward thus far.

But if we accept the premise just for a second that "they are not dead but merely sleeping".Are the Wedding Parties not giving the Men an insight into what they fought so hard to maintain?.

I agree the CWGC answer is final.

George

[AOK4]

Every now and then this discussion pops up. I think both sides have to be a bit reasonable here. If they want to take a few pictures so that you can't acces the register or something, what's the problem? Just wait a few minutes. If there's a "normal" visitor taking a picture or looking into the register, you'll wait a bit too? As long as they have respect for the buried there, I see no problem.

A lot of people in the Westhoek are a bit annoyed by this kind of reaction from the British who consider the whole area a bit to be theirs. A bit of understanding for the people who live and work in the Westhoek would be nice. Most of them respect the memorials, cemeteries and battlefields but it's an everyday thing they live near.

It is even considered unrespectful f.i. to smoke in Vimy. There are a lot of young (Candaian) boys and girls walking around there who talk to you if you light a cigarette... It's in the open and how much soldiers didn't like a good smoke? The longer the war is over, the more commotion there is about the slightest thing.

There is a very beautiful song by Willem Vermandere about the former German cemetery in Lauwe in which he sings about the feet of the playing children on the graves of the soldiers and the lovers going to that quiet place. I think the soldiers who are buried there would like to see a wedding, joyful playing children etc. on the ground they fought for (as long as it's respectful) and they would not want anger about small things. That's my opinion though...

Regards,

Jan

[andigger]

Odd, just very odd. I guess it shouldn't be illegal, but people should really, really think about what they are doing a bit more.

[ianw]

I visited Tyne Cot early on a lovely day in Spring last year and a bride and groom with a photographer were having photos taken against the collonade. It is a lovely background and they did not interfere with my enjoyment of Tyne Cot at all.

I think they are in a way showing respect by sharing their life affirming act of marriage with Tyne Cot but agree that the locals should not interfere with the prime purpose of the cemetery while equally visitors should respect the locals use of the cemetery for this sort of purpose.

I remain firmly opposed to the use of the interior of cemeteries such as Tyne Cot for "Peace Concerts" , poetry readings or any such events.

[Aurel Sercu]

Being a local, what else can I do but join ? Or at least give a very brief opinion.

I must say I agree for 99% with what has been said so far, and this goes for both the pros and cons together, strange as it may seem. All arguments put forward make sense to me.

If only we could agree that taking wedding photos at CWGC cemeteries is not "meant" to be disrespectful. But that it can indeed be interpreted as being disrespectful by others. (And this goes for the Menin Gate Memorial, for Bellewaarde 'fun' park etc.)

Aurel

[burlington]

I am in two minds about all this. What would the dead really have wanted?

for us to mourn and reverence them in to eternity

OR

for us to celebrate their lives and to do what I suspect that many would really have wanted, that is to live life as it should be lived, remember them and their colleagues but at the same time have a damn good time in doing it.

I don't really know. Do you?

Don't forget- Marriage is one means of continuing (I am having great problems here) the human race to replace those who have died.

Still, I don't know.

[Mark A]

I agree with Martin, I'm in two minds about it, there's been some good debate from both sides.

At my wedding we had pictures taken in the church yard, a peaceful place and I didn't think it was disrespecting the dead who lay there. Is there is a difference between that and a war cemetary?

I guess I for one wouldn't have my wedding pictures taken in a war cemetary. But it's a free world and that was what they were fighting for wasn't it? And I like the sentiment in the song by Willem Vermandere.

Just to add a bit, I believe Delville Wood is used as well as a background for wedding photographs.

M

[paul guthrie]

The cemetery is in Belgium for God's sake; I read nothing that indicates they were dispespectful to the dead though they were impolite concerning the registers but that could wait a while.

[Eddie Morton]

Whats the difference between a number of people being photographed standing behind a headstone of a relative,

or a number of school children being photographed behind the headstone of someone they are researching,

or the school photograph in front of the cross of remembrance to pin on the school notice board to remember the trip,

or weddings in this country being photographed in the churchyard under the blossom trees between the grave stones,

or the photograph of groups of old soldiers taken while visiting.

Some of the most beautifull architecture in Europe is in and around CWG cemeteries and if a bride and groom wish to take advantage of this then fair do's.

I don't think for a minute that they were being disrespectful, and members should consider all aspects of the situation before calling anyone.

Controversially yours, Eddie

[John_Hartley]

Although not a Christian, I've attended many a wedding, over the years, at the local parish churches. Often the wedding photos include gravestones "in shot". They've never seemed to show a lack of respect for those buried and the photos certainly seem to add to the happiness and memory of the day.

My own wedding photos were taken "out the back" of the local pub. Which doesnt quite have the same serenity to it!

John

[Guest Desmond6]

I've never been to Tyne Cot. I've seen loads of photographs which certainly portray it as a beautiful, serene - but awfully sad place. It would not be my choice for a picture shoot on wedding days.

However, I have to point out that Ballymena's Memorial park in summer is a wonderful garden with bowling lawn grass, superb trees and avenues, fountains and statues. A lot of people use it as a wedding background and I find nothing tasteless about that. Of course it contains no graves and I doubt if anyone ever has the memorials in the background of their pictures.

On another point, the Water Service wished to lay new pipes underneath the park and promised all would be returned to its former glory. To the credit of the local council - and they don't often deserve credit - they absolutely refused. As result, Water Service had to negotiate a roundabout route for their pipes and major hassle was caused. But no-one made a complaint because they knew the alternative was digging up the park.

Des

[Tim Birch]

I have seen wedding parties at a cemetery between Bethune and Neuve Chapelle -I forget the name of it, but it had attractive cloisters where the photographs were taken - ,and in the grounds of the South African memorial at Delville Wood.

Although I was initially somewhat taken aback, on reflection I don't find it a problem if that's what some folk want. After all, as has been pointed out, most traditional church weddings have the photographs taken in the graveyard, and I have never heard any objection to that. The dead are dead regardless of who they were in life; and birth, marriage and death are all part of the process of that life - the first and the last being unavoidable facts so far as any individual is concerned.

Well kept War Cemeteries are gardens and places of beauty as well as sadness. They are designed for contemplation and enjoyment in the same way that a park or formal garden is.

I have sat quietly with my wife in Thistle Dump Cemetery on the Somme with our backs against the wall and enjoying the sun and serenity, having a picnic lunch during a cycle tour of the area. Was this disrespectful? Were we wrong to be enjoying ourselves? I think not.

Tim

[FRICOURT]

I think that those "sleeping" there would be pleased to see life going on, after all that is the main reason why they died. As long as due respect is shown why not use these beautiful sites for celebrations of life.

[spike10764]

We don't know the circumstances of the people involved - maybe they were inviting a " relative" from the Great War to their ceremony.

They may be showing the utmost respect.

If the CWGC don't mind and no other visitors were inconvenienced, then I don't see the problem.

A wry smile will have crossed the faces of many of those that "sleep", I think....