Dragon Posted 30 September , 2009 Share Posted 30 September , 2009 Complementing Egbert's post here - (post 17) the archive image of the quarry - here is almost the same view in 2009: . I'm pretty sure that the marks in the rocks are unnatural: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 30 September , 2009 Share Posted 30 September , 2009 These are complementing Egbert's photo here. The walls are most curious. Firstly, they are encrusted with hooks that take on an almost graceful quality. (Are they for netting of some sort?) But what about the walls themselves? Here you can see quite clearly that the concrete is properly shuttered (at the left hand side). But on the other side: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 30 September , 2009 Share Posted 30 September , 2009 The answer is in the screwed up form at the centre right: There are several like this, and they are clearly the necks of sandbags. The sandbags have rotted and their shape remains in the concrete. Which came first? It looks as if a sandbag parapet was eventually backed by wooden formwork and concrete poured, running into the crevices. The effect of the wall now has a sculptural quality, a surreal modelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 30 September , 2009 Share Posted 30 September , 2009 Back to the starting point - and symbols of what still lies under the damaged mountain. Walkers still find these men when they have for some reason surfaced, and crosses are erected to mark the spot after the bodies are removed to cemeteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 30 September , 2009 Share Posted 30 September , 2009 Anyway, I don't want to take over Egbert's thread, so I'll start another with my own walk on Reichackerkopf, another evil summit, when I've edited some images. Thanks to Egbert for sharing! I think it's curious - and a good thing - how two people can go to the same place and see things differently. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 10 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2009 Thanls for the complementary pictures. Here is an aerial of desolated Barrenkopf, roughly the area I walked. The view is from above the summit towards west, La Courtine and Col du Wettstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 10 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2009 Modern Google Earth aerial of same area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 Returning to Egbert's post # 76, where Chester the Famous Messenger Dog is exploring the remains of a German bunker, this is what the scene looked like just before Christmas. Snow was far deeper higher up and it wasn't possible to get through to the spot Egbert visited, nor to le Linge or other sites. It was minus 16 the next day; I can't imagine what strength keeps men's morale up in such intense cold. This previously posted image shows the bunker (arrowed) in May: and this was December, 2009: I also have some snow pictures of Reichackerkopf from the same spot, which I'll add to my own thread. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 hope to gert there sometime this year, i may ask to pick your brains nearer the time if i may? matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agh57 Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 As a result of this excellent thread, I'm also thinking of going in July/August. Any recommendations where to stay and any general tips/advice would be welcomed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 7 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2010 Thanks Gwyn for the wintery addition. Yes it is incredible how they survived with unsuitable gear/clothing in the bitter cold temps. Agh, for accomodation in the Voges, Gwyn is our expert here. I am sure she can advise you and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 7 January , 2010 Share Posted 7 January , 2010 I'm not an expert! I know a few places for accommodation, and eaten at quite a few more, but I've never camped. I don't like to put recommendations on a forum, but I'm happy to make suggestions privately or to point you at tourist websites. I'm putting together a website on this area, based on my own personal perspective and my own material. There are good and uninspiring hotels, chambres d'hôtes and fermes auberges (farms offering home-cooked food and accommodation, with a restaurant open to visitors, often open air in summer). If you're hoping to walk in the locality covered by Egbert's two threads and mine, the area of Orbey or the hills round Munster are a good base with access to a range of places and to the wine growing region of Alsace which drops down to the Rhine plain. At least one of the most promoted hotels in Munster itself is used as a base for a British coach holiday operator and I prefer to avoid that sort of establishment. I'm very happy to try and help. Please feel free to send a message or email via the forum. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 7 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2010 Winter impression from Linge towards Wettstein, some 1km from Schratzmännele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agh57 Posted 16 January , 2010 Share Posted 16 January , 2010 I'm not an expert! I know a few places for accommodation, and eaten at quite a few more, but I've never camped. I don't like to put recommendations on a forum, but I'm happy to make suggestions privately or to point you at tourist websites. I'm putting together a website on this area, based on my own personal perspective and my own material. There are good and uninspiring hotels, chambres d'hôtes and fermes auberges (farms offering home-cooked food and accommodation, with a restaurant open to visitors, often open air in summer). If you're hoping to walk in the locality covered by Egbert's two threads and mine, the area of Orbey or the hills round Munster are a good base with access to a range of places and to the wine growing region of Alsace which drops down to the Rhine plain. At least one of the most promoted hotels in Munster itself is used as a base for a British coach holiday operator and I prefer to avoid that sort of establishment. I'm very happy to try and help. Please feel free to send a message or email via the forum. Gwyn Thanks for the offer Gwyn. I'll look into it in a bit more detail and get back to you shortly if that is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 25 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 25 August , 2010 Just returned from another field trip and took a picture of Bärenstall German military cemetery, just below Schratzmännele summit: THEN and NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 27 August , 2010 Share Posted 27 August , 2010 Thanks for the two images, Egbert. Here is another early picture of Bärenstall German military cemetery. Card from my collection. This is an unusual view which I think may have been taken from the hillside behind. You'll see that the gateway and the mass grave at the top have not yet been constructed. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 27 August , 2010 Share Posted 27 August , 2010 This is curious because the photographer or the postcard maker appears to have inked in the crosses. (Shows clearly on magnification.) Card from my collection. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 27 August , 2010 Author Share Posted 27 August , 2010 Wow Gwyn, these are rare and precious pictures of Bärenstall cemetery. I can second your remarks - the photographer stands some 10m downhill of today's parking lot across the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Ellis Posted 30 September , 2010 Share Posted 30 September , 2010 To egbert and Dragon, The chances of me ever getting to these places in person is very limited, I really appreciate your efforts to construct these posts about the Vosges battlegrounds. Thank you both. Cheers David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 1 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 1 October , 2010 Well David, if this meets your interest, why don't you just read the 2 other threads from the same battlegrounds. You'll find them here on classic threads 1. Walking Reichsackerkopf, from Dragon and 2. My climb up to the Buchenkopf from myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 27 October , 2010 Share Posted 27 October , 2010 Hi Egbert nice thread! Eddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Battalion Posted 27 October , 2010 Share Posted 27 October , 2010 Very interesting, I know nothing about the Vosges battlefields, so it's great to see all the now & then photos. I assume the trenches were lined with stone post war to preserve them, as the trenches in the picture in post 54 appear to wood revetments, and stone would seem a hazardous material to use in terms of stone fragments if a shell landed in a trench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_oz Posted 28 October , 2010 Share Posted 28 October , 2010 egbert When are you going to share pictures of your recent trip to the Sudelkopf with us. There are a lot of us who are intreted in the Vosges, regards Tim B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 28 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2010 Thanx Eddy I assume the trenches were lined with stone post war to preserve them, as the trenches in the picture in post 54 appear to wood revetments, and stone would seem a hazardous material to use in terms of stone fragments if a shell landed in a trench? Ok, here we go: the trench in post #54 is a French trench. The French trenches generally were not as solid and thoroughly constructed as the German ones. The Vosges battlegrounds saw a lot of stone revetments and stone based trench fortifications as it is a natural material from the sites. Remember, all material (concrete, wood) had to be brought up with mules, hand carried or by funicular railway. During artillery drum fire it does not matter whether you were killed by stone fragments or wood fragments, both were deadly. Otherwise in times of relative calmness stone was an ideal material for protection. In fact the Germans encountered situations during the 1915/1916 Hartmannsweillerkopf fightings (remember this small mountain cost 60,000 men on both sides over the course of 4 years)when the French artillery fire set the wooden frames and reinforcements on fire that forced the defenders to evacuate front line trenches, I think it was a trench system along the "Himmelsleiter"! The stone made trenches are the reason why most German trenches still today are up there and are generally in excellent order after so many years. Sudelkopf was indeed my last trip a couple of weeks ago with tons of photos. But if you look at the small number of hits to Gwyn's and my 3 Vosges battleground threads (Reichsackerkopf, Buchenkopf and this thread) - I think it is not worth to post them here. 1. it would be very time consuming to resize and crop etc and 2. as other British pals have convinced and have explained me: this is a mostly Brit forum and the majority of visitors are overwhelmingly solely interested in Flanders and Somme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 28 October , 2010 Share Posted 28 October , 2010 Hi Egbert, That's a shame, There are many of us interested in these other sites, surely one of the main purposes of the Forum is to broaden our education and knowledge. I have greatly appreciated the time you and Gwyn have spent uploading your photos and do intend to spend some time in the Vosges, in the next few years, as a result. There are also many members of the Forum who can't visit these sites but with the help of others' photos and Google Earth, can at least get a feel for the locations. I do hope you reconsider and thanks for the wonderful photographs you have posted so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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