Whitedog Posted 18 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2009 Wow, that's pretty interesting! I used to have a model 95 mauser marked with a stamp for the Orange Free State, but I couldn't get 7mm ammo for it anymore so I sold it for about $60.00 Messed up there huh? I shoulda kept it. Yes, Reloading this rifle is very fast with the stripper clip. It must've been quite a head ache to have loaded one round at a time in the heat of battle. I really like the one stage trigger pull on this rifle. It's crisp and has no creep in it whatsoever. I'm glad that I live out in the country where I can shoot it off with no complaints from any neighbors. However, I haven't even fired a single round off in it yet. I've only fired my Colt 1911 45 Auto and my 1917 45 S&W revolver so far. The horses don't like it so I wait until they're way down the valley in the far pasture by the river. What type of long Enfield do you have or did you shoot? Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppertales Posted 18 August , 2009 Share Posted 18 August , 2009 Very nice rifles you have there. I don't have one of those in my small collection but I keep an eye out at the gun shows. I am down the road a bit from you in Texas.....chris3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 18 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2009 [attac hment=109594:pix3777996421.jpg]Thanks Chris, I got them both on Gunbroker.com I just haven't seen the CLLE's for sale anywhere except in Great Britain occassionaly. The earlier patterns show up a little more frequently. There was recently a first model Magazine Lee Metford MkI* with the in line magazine and finger grooves etc. that was unaltered except for having the metford barrel replaced with an Enfield barrel that 12 bidders ran up to $1,300.00 pretty quick at the last minute. The others though haven't brought much atttention. The two CLLE's I won brought competition however and cost my wife a pretty penny. She must love me because she wouldn't let them go. I'm glad she didn't! Let's see if I can post the pictures I saved of the early rifle...it's interesting and seldom encountered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 18 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2009 [attac hment=109597:pix3779039468.jpg] This type is certainly early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 18 August , 2009 Share Posted 18 August , 2009 Cpt'n G, What is on the disc? It looks like a 1914 issue date and unit mark. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 18 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2009 Cpt'n G, What is on the disc? It looks like a 1914 issue date and unit mark. Joe Sweeney I'm not sure Joe. The photo of the disk was the only one on the auction site of the rifle. It drew a lot of attention from bidders. Interesting rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old War Skule Posted 18 August , 2009 Share Posted 18 August , 2009 I'm green with envy over that rifle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 18 August , 2009 Share Posted 18 August , 2009 I'm not sure Joe. The photo of the disk was the only one on the auction site of the rifle. It drew a lot of attention from bidders. Interesting rifle. Thie second rifle looks to me to be a Lee Metford MkI*. , Small "dimple" in stock under the cutoff and no safety mounted on the bolt (no safety at all) also much deeper magazine. Rounded corners on front handguard also Also - stock marking disc rather than stamping on the extended tang of the buttplate, which is steel here rather than brass.. Very nice - not suprised it went for a premium! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 18 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2009 [attac hment=109602:pix3779029875.jpg]Yhese might show some additional detail somebody might be interested in. Wish I'd have bought it. The rifling had been changed to Enfield but I maybe it still used the old round nosed bullet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 18 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 19 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Interestingly, the EY stamp on the wrist and the barrel is a code indicating "for Emergency Use Only" http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/gh7.htm click on this site and verify for yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Interestingly, the EY stamp on the wrist and the barrel is a code indicating "for Emergency Use Only" http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/gh7.htm click on this site and verify for yourselves. Lots of the rifles currently/recently coming into the US from India are EY (EmergencY use as you say) or GF (Grenade Firing) stamped - both indicating a downgrading. Some of them are very very worn but by no means all of them, I got a very nice early No1MkIII quite recently with EY markings which after very close inspection I cannot for the life of me work out why. I suspect as replacement rifles and types came in they were relegated as a matter of course. It appears a good number od LMetfords, LEnfields and CLLEs are appearing from Afghanistan. I know a couple of US servicemen who have brought home nice examples. Have to be a little careful though as there is also something of a glut of Khyber Pass produced rifles - some very nicely done - others not so! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 19 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Here is my other Charger Loading Lee Enfield with it's bayonet and it's correct leather sling Sorry for the dark picture. I think I can take another that's lighter, but anyway, youcan see the stampings on the butt clearly. Does anyone know what the date of 1910 means? They're typical of all of the stamps on the rifle. It's really sharp and nice with a Minty bore. this one was made in 1896 but it's serial number is just 257 off from the other that I should get tomorrow that's in the mail which has the date of 1899 on it as the date of assembly. I've got a really clean scabbard and frog with this bayonet, but I'm having trouble taking any more pictures. Anyway, hope you like the rifle. Fred G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Well here is my only "long lee" an 1896 LEI, I haven't shot it for a few years but as I recall it was very accurate, The big flaw with this rifle as a military collectable is the barrel was professionally recrowned at some point in its life which means it is about 1/2 an inch shorter than it should be...the recrowning no doubt improves accuracy but it means my P1888 doesn't fit! There are faint Enfield stamps on the buttstock but no unit markings anywhere. Chris (apologies for the poor pics - my usual camera is being repaired!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 19 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Chris, that is a wonderful rifle! That's sort of on par with the rifle club Enfields that often had the barrels shortened for use in target shooting clubs. Maybe, by shortening the barrels, accuracy was greatly improved. I've often seen 1903 Springfield rifles whose barrels were countered bored. That is when the old crown is removed by milling away the inside a bit to remove any appreciable wear from corrossion or cleaning rod wear. Maybe your rifle was prepared for target range competition by someone in a rifle club. What type of wood is the stock made from? I believe that model of rifle is what mine started out as. I've a British micrometer that is used to finely adjust that particular rear sight. I bought it thinking it would work on mine, but it doesn't fit due to the upgrading of my sight. The English call it something else though instead of a micrometer. It's made of white brass with finely detailed increments for fine adjustments to the sight for target shooting. I'll take a picture of it and post it here today. What type of groups have you been aboe to make with it at 100 yards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 19 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2009 I just wanted to thank every one of you fine lads for the incredible diversity of information that you gave me concerning the use of the Long Lee Rifles in the Great War. I'm still going over the links and bits of information and photographs that are out there. Absolutely incredible! My sincere thanks to you all! Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Chris, that is a wonderful rifle! That's sort of on par with the rifle club Enfields that often had the barrels shortened for use in target shooting clubs. Maybe, by shortening the barrels, accuracy was greatly improved. I've often seen 1903 Springfield rifles whose barrels were countered bored. That is when the old crown is removed by milling away the inside a bit to remove any appreciable wear from corrossion or cleaning rod wear. Maybe your rifle was prepared for target range competition by someone in a rifle club. What type of wood is the stock made from? I believe that model of rifle is what mine started out as. I've a British micrometer that is used to finely adjust that particular rear sight. I bought it thinking it would work on mine, but it doesn't fit due to the upgrading of my sight. The English call it something else though instead of a micrometer. It's made of white brass with finely detailed increments for fine adjustments to the sight for target shooting. I'll take a picture of it and post it here today. What type of groups have you been aboe to make with it at 100 yards? The "club pattern" shortening is a bit more dramatic than mine. After the introduction of the SMLE as the standard service rifle, whoever the governing body of target matches in the UK at the time was, decreed that rifles must be of that length to participate in service matches so the club pattern rifles had a significant chunk of barrel and forend removed. Mine has just been recrowned, undoubtedly for shooting purposes but not to meet the "club" standard. (one importer/distributor in the US is currently offering modern remakes of the club pattern rifle, apparently fully refinished...I am intrigued and they are reasonably cheap). I also have one that has been both shortened and converted to a .22 trainer for the Royal Navy but that doesn't count as a "long lee" any more. The furniture is walnut I believe, but it is quite light. It too may have been refinished (perhaps at the time it was recrowned) but the cartouches on the stock survive so it was not to excessively sanded, or it may be that this has been a civillian rifle for a very long time and therefore avoided cosmolene and oil soaking. I have had it for about 10 years. To be honest I cannot recall the sorts of groups I have a vague recollection of being impressed but the accuracy. I also recall loading one at a time as I could never get it to feed 100% reliably from the magazine. I assume you are aware of it but Ian Skennerton's book originally published as "The Lee Enfield Story" and recently updated as "The Lee-Enfield: A Century of Lee-Metford & Lee-Enfield Rifles & Carbines" is the standard modern reference work - bit pricey at $70.00 but worth it for a serious reference on all marks of Lee-Enfield. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 19 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Yes, I've been thinking about buying Ian Skennerton's book for awhile. Just hard to get around the price. It's an investment. I'd rather buy a MkIII oiler for my 2nd long Enfield. THe last one of thise I bought out of England for $26.00. THen for some time on ebay, the seller was selling more for the same buy it now price. Now, they're all gone...sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 19 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Hi buddy ,very interesting about the long lee conversion's to the charger feed system,I used a long lee recently at a Boer war reenactment event at Kelmarsh Hall England,at the start of the battle I had ten rounds in the magazine, of course in the heat of the battle the magazine is quickly emptied reloading without the charger system is slow ,you can understand how much an advantage the BOERS had using the MAUSER ,bye the way I portray a BOER not a BRITISH soldier the BOERS used a lot of captured long lee's also they were used by the ROYAL NAVY IN WW1 I hope this helps Fred GHR You mentioned that you are in a Boer War reenactment. Could you please tell me more about that? Do you own your own rifle? How are the firearms laws in regard to military reenactors in Great Britain? Can you keep the rifles at your home? Concerning the availability of ammunition, is it easy to obtain surplus 303 there? Thanks, Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted 19 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2009 I'm green with envy over that rifle! So am I! I wish that I could own them all. Whoever bought it got a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 23 August , 2009 Share Posted 23 August , 2009 Hello, Tony: 52 Lowland Division was a Territorial Force Division. It was mobilised en masse in August 1914, went east in '15, to F&F in '18, was demobilised after the War and reconstituted as a Territorial Army Division in 1920. It was again mobilised en masse in 1939. Antony I have been away for a few days, but thanks for that. I regret I am insufficiently schooled in unit identification. The reason I posted that comment is because it is quoted in the Official History of the Ministry of Munitions that the Lowland Division was sent abroard armed with rifles sighted for Mark VI ammunition, and I presumed (NEVER presume) that it was a regular division and thus worthy of mention that they still had rifles sighted for Mark VI. Mea culpa. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old War Skule Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 Well here is my only "long lee" an 1896 LEI, I haven't shot it for a few years but as I recall it was very accurate, The big flaw with this rifle as a military collectable is the barrel was professionally recrowned at some point in its life which means it is about 1/2 an inch shorter than it should be...the recrowning no doubt improves accuracy but it means my P1888 doesn't fit! There are faint Enfield stamps on the buttstock but no unit markings anywhere. Chris Chris, I've seen these converted/updated to Mk I and to Mk III standard with data markings on the butt socket opposite the usual government markings. The two I've seen were dated 1912 and 1914, respectively. To the untrained eye, they were nothing more than a "beat up Enfield." A collector bought both of them for a total of $400 at a local gun show! It would be a piece of cake for an experienced restoration gunsmith to extend your rifle's barrel to original length. You would never be able to tell it was done. I have a Mk I*** made at Sparkbrook in 1905 that I'm restoring from being sportered. The three stars indicate it was brought up to Mk III standard and would contain some Mk III parts. Other than waiting on a forestock to arrive, I have all of the other parts. Luckily, it has the volley sights intact! Here's an as purchased shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 It would be a piece of cake for an experienced restoration gunsmith to extend your rifle's barrel to original length. You would never be able to tell it was done. That's interesting - I will ask my gunsmith contacts. Short of a complete rebarrel I personally have no idea how you would add half an inch or so to the end of a barrel. I too have a couple of ongoing restoration projects - I was lucky enough to find a SMLE MkI forend the only modification to which was a chunk cut out for a charger bridge and I should be able to splice a piece in there - otherwise its intact (inc correct early volley sigt base. Interestingly it was on a later Indian SMLE. I am looking for an Indian Pattern conversion as that is a glaring hole in what is otherwise a reasonably representative selection I have acquired over the years. I keep missing them at auction! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk VII Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 D Coy, 6th Durham Light Infantry in trenches nr. YPRES, 24th May 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 It is also relatively easy to find photographs of troops armed with early SMLEs still fitted with the Pattern '03 bayonet. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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