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Murrough

5th Batt.Royal Dublin Fusiliers in the Rising.

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Murrough

I would be grateful if anybody could tell me the movements of the 5th Batt.Royal Dublin Fusiliers during the Easter Rising 1916.I cannot find any information on the net.

Regards,

Murrough.

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HERITAGE PLUS

Murrough

None of my books on the subject mention the 5th Battalion although all mention that men from the 10th. Batt. were involved in the defence of Dublin Castle.

The 5th. Batt were stationed on/at the Curragh.

Dave

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Murrough

Thanks for that Dave.Its not an easy one to research.SDGW have 4 casualties to the 5th on the 26/4/16 which I assume was in the Rising.

A Sjt.Flood of the 5th Batt RDF was tried for the Murder of a canadian officer Algernon Lucas in the Guinness Brewery on the 29/4/1916

I think the 5th were drafted into Dublin to help quell the Rising but I can't find anything on the net.

Regards,

Murrough.

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HERITAGE PLUS
Sjt.Flood of the 5th Batt RDF was tried for the Murder of a canadian officer Algernon Lucas in the Guinness Brewery on the 29/4/1916

Murrough

The Irish Times Book of the 1916 Rising has a couple of paragraphs on this quoting a contemporay report which refers to another Officer - a Lt.Worswick - being shot at the same time. Happy to transcribe them here if you feel it is of interest to you.

Dave

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Murrough

If you dont mind Dave, that would be a great help.

Regards,

Murrough.

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HERITAGE PLUS

Murrough

The Irish Times Book of the 1916 Rising from pages 86-87.

GUINNESS WORKERS KILLED BY SOLDIERS

The many serious incidents during the week included the shooting dead of a number of Guinness workers by Government soldiers, according to a contemporary report in the Weekly Irish Times.

William John Rice, a night clerk in the Guinness brewery along with a Lieut. A. Lucas of the 2nd King Edward’s Horse Regiment, was shot dead at his place of work, by members of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers on Friday, April 28th.

It appears the two men were making their nightly round of the brewery buildings when they were challenged by very nervous and jumpy Royal Dubliners. The soldiers later claimed they had caught Sinn Feiners infiltrating the brewery premises, and shot them.

Another officer and a civilian brewery employee, Lieut. Worswick and Mr. Dockeray also a Guinness worker were shot dead around the same time. These deaths caused considerable concern as the victims were known not to have any sympathy with the rebel cause.

Company Quartermaster Sergeant Robert Flood was subsequently court-martialled for the first two deaths. In evidence for the defence it was argued that Lucas and Rice had shown signs of Sinn Fein sympathies.

The judge was quick to point out that no such evidence had been produced in the case of Lucas. The Managing Director of Guinness issued a statement saying, on behalf of the company, that neither Rice nor Dockeray was in any way connected with the Sinn Fein rebellion.

In the event the accused man was acquitted. The result was received with applause in the court. The Weekly Irish Times reported having devoted much space to an issue which, like the shooting of Francis Sheehy Skeffington, clearly troubled many of its readers.

For Rice and Dockeray's memorial see: http://www.irishwarmemorials.ie/html/showM...al.php?show=547

Have you seen this previous thread? There is info on Lucas, Worswick and Flood on it.

Interestingly Lucas originated fom a village close to the town of Devizes in Wiltshire where I grew up!.

See also:

Dave

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irishmen1916
Murrough

The Irish Times Book of the 1916 Rising from pages 86-87.

GUINNESS WORKERS KILLED BY SOLDIERS

It appears the two men were making their nightly round of the brewery buildings when they were challenged by very nervous and jumpy Royal Dubliners. The soldiers later claimed they had caught Sinn Feiners infiltrating the brewery premises, and shot them.

Another officer and a civilian brewery employee, Lieut. Worswick and Mr. Dockeray also a Guinness worker were shot dead around the same time. These deaths caused considerable concern as the victims were known not to have any sympathy with the rebel cause.

Company Quartermaster Sergeant Robert Flood was subsequently court-martialled for the first two deaths. In evidence for the defence it was argued that Lucas and Rice had shown signs of Sinn Fein sympathies.

The judge was quick to point out that no such evidence had been produced in the case of Lucas. The Managing Director of Guinness issued a statement saying, on behalf of the company, that neither Rice nor Dockeray was in any way connected with the Sinn Fein rebellion.

In the event the accused man was acquitted. The result was received with applause in the court. The Weekly Irish Times reported having devoted much space to an issue which, like the shooting of Francis Sheehy Skeffington, clearly troubled many of its readers.

Dave

How did a Sergeant stop a Army Officer, talk to him enough to asssume he had Sinn Fein sympathies, shoot him, and then get away with it ?

Peter

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Murrough

Thanks Dave for the help.

Regards,

Murrough.

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irishmen1916

Name: FLOOD, ROBERT

Initials: R

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Company Serjeant Major

Regiment/Service: Royal Berkshire Regiment

Unit Text: 7th Bn.

Age: 33

Date of Death: 09/05/1917

Service No: 27224

Additional information: Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. Husband of Frances Daisy Flood, of "Newville," Barham, Canterbury, Kent. Enlisted Royal Dublin Fusiliers, 1899. Born in London.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Memorial: DOIRAN MEMORIAL

Hi Murragh,

This is the CWGC information on CSM. R. Flood, it seems that after he was acquitted in 1916 he was moved from the RDF to the Royal Berkshire Regiment .

Peter

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Murrough

Thanks for that Peter.There are a couple of pages on Ancestry for him,he transferred to the 3rd Berks on the 38/7/1916 but no other relevant information.

Regards,

Murrough.

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corisande

Official reports say they were brought to Dublin from The Curragh, arriving in Dublin at 3.45am on Tuesday 25h April, and appear to have gone straight into action.

In the Tuesday afternoon, the Daily Express building on Cork Hill, which served as an outpost to the rebel detachment in City Hall, was stormed by troops under very heavy fire by a detachment of the 5th Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers under Second Lieutenant F. O'Neill. He died later on 13 Nov 1916 with the 10th Battalion.

I have been unable to find out where the 5th Battalion's dead occurred during the Easter Rising

Have you got any further?

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Murrough

Thanks for the help Corisande, I havent got any further, Im am researching a man who joined the 5th batt in Nov. 1915 and I am trying to figure out if he was involved in the Rising with the RDF.He was later sentenced to death in Nov 1916 in Salonica for falling asleep on duty, but the sentence was commuted to 5 years hard labour and he later rejoined the 1st batt RDF in June 1917 and was severley injured on the 4/10/1917 at the battle of Broodseinde where SJT.Ockenden won the VC.

Regards,

Murrough.

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corisande

I am gradually accumulating more on the RDF during the Rising, but it is mainly general rather than particular.

In other words I can find our what battalion was doing what, but light on detail on names of individual soldiers

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mhifle

Hi,

I came across this note in the 3rd Battalion The Connaught Rangers War Diary, sent to the Commanding Officer, concerning Sergeant Barror of the Connaught Rangers.

Regards Mark

Officer Commanding 3rd Connaught Rangers

3.5.1916

Dublin 2 May 1916

Sir,

I have the honour to inform you that Sergeant Barror has been associated with me throughout the operations against the Sein Feiners. He brought me much valuable information from time to time, and on one occasion we were able to bag two snipers, who had been worrying us for some time. He is an excellent shot and I only wish I could be associated with him at the front.

I have the honour to be Sir.

Your obedient servant

W J Clarke, 2nd Lieutenant, 5th Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Royal Barracks, Dublin

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corisande
Dublin 2 May 1916

Sir,

I have the honour to inform you that Sergeant Barror has been associated with me throughout the operations against the Sein Feiners. He brought me much valuable information from time to time, and on one occasion we were able to bag two snipers, who had been worrying us for some time. He is an excellent shot and I only wish I could be associated with him at the front.

I have the honour to be Sir.

Your obedient servant

W J Clarke, 2nd Lieutenant, 5th Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Royal Barracks, Dublin

Thanks, I have added that to my notes on 5th Battalion RDF. First bit I have seen showing them in Royal Barracks/

Poor 2nd Lt Clarke died soon afterwards CLARKE, Wilfred John, 2/LT, Died of wounds, 09/09/16, Royal Dublin Fusiliers

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mhifle

Hi,

Here are some men form the Royal Dublin Fusiliers listed at various hospitals in Dublin in the Irish Times

Regards Mark

Irish Times 5 May 1916

Dr Steevens Hospital

Admitted as Wounded

Private T W Barnes

Adelaide Hospital

Dead

Private A H Thompson

Private F Brennan

City of Dublin Hospital

Wounded

Patrick Conway Royal Dublin Fusiliers

Meath Hospital

Wounded

Thomas Cox Royal Dublin Fusiliers

Michael Burns Royal Dublin Fusiliers

Mercer’s Hospital

Dead

Corporal Humphries

Dublin Castle Red Cross Hospital

Dead

Sergeant Burke

Private Watchorn

Private Lucas

Private Cox

Dublin University VAD Hospital

Wounded

Lance Corporal M Mullins, gun shot wound in leg

London Times 5 June 1916

Died of Wounds

Private A Ellis 21735, Royal Dublin Fusiliers

Interred at Dean’s Grange Cemetery

Wounded

O’Riordan 26072 W, Royal Dublin Fusiliers

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corisande

Mark

Thanks for the wounded list.

It is a bit of an inexact science, but I may get a better idea where the 3 Dublin Battalions were in action by linking those hospitals with the battalions of the men taken there

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mhifle

Hi,

Here is some information form the CWGC.

Also a 2nd note concerning Sergeant Barror. Maybe the 10th & 5th Battalions were working together.

Regards Mark

No 409 Sergeant J J Barror

This is to certify that Sergeant J Barror 3rd Battalion The Connaught Rangers has been doing duty with the 10th Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers, from 25th April 1916 to 8th May inclusive, and has done good service.

L.G. Esmonde Lieutenant Colonel

Commanding 10th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers

Royal Barracks Dublin

8.5.1916

Irish Times 5 May 1916

Dr Steevens Hospital

Admitted as Wounded

Private T W Barnes (Medal Card: Thomas William, 40814)

Adelaide Hospital

Dead

Private A H Thompson I think this could be (Private John A Thompson, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 10th Bn, 24 Apr 1916, 24923, Home) (CWGC says 5th Bn, age 19)

Private F Brennan (FRANCIS A. 10th Bn., 24/04/1916, 25244)

City of Dublin Hospital

Wounded

Patrick Conway Royal Dublin Fusiliers

Meath Hospital

Wounded

Thomas Cox Royal Dublin Fusiliers (Medal Card: 25477)

Michael Burns Royal Dublin Fusiliers (Medal Card: 19265)

Mercer’s Hospital

Dead

Corporal Humphries (JOHN WILLIAM HUMFREY, "A" Coy. 5th Bn. 29, 25/04/1916, 19222)

Dublin Castle Red Cross Hospital

Dead

Sergeant Burke (FREDERICK WILLIAM ROBERT, Lance Serjeant, 10bn, 25692, 28/04/1916, aged 21)

Private Watchorn (ABRAHAM, 5th Bn. 25026, 26/04/1916, aged 21)

Private Lucas (FRANCIS, 5th Bn. 17687, 26/04/1916)

Private Cox (Coxon Richard, 5th Bn. 26/04/1916, 22164)

Dublin University VAD Hospital

Wounded

Lance Corporal M Mullins, gun shot wound in leg

London Times 5 June 1916

Died of Wounds

Private A Ellis 21735, Royal Dublin Fusiliers (ALFRED, 5th Bn. aged 19, 01/05/1916, 21735)

Interred at Dean’s Grange Cemetery

Wounded

O’Riordan 26072 W, Royal Dublin Fusiliers (Medal Card: Private, William)

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mhifle

Hi,

Sergeant Burke also seems to have a MID

War Office,

25th January, 1917.

The names of the undermentioned have been brought to the notice of the Secretary of State

for War for distinguished services rendered in connection with the War: —

Burke, No. -25692 Lce.-Serjt. F. W. R., R.Dublin Fus. (killed).

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29919/supplements/946

post-14045-1256561568.jpg

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corisande

There were number of awards that were given to the RDF for action during the Easter Rising. I mentioned in another thread that I came across them in the 10th Battalion RDF War Diaries in Jan 1917,

2nd Lt Alphonso Watson HENCHY was awarded the Military Cross in connection with the Dublin Rising. Later was complimented on his patrol report by the Brigadier, as the result of patrol on 12 Oct 1916 . He must have been wounded on this patrol as he was was struck off the strength of the battalion on transfer to England, dated 18/10/1916. He must have served then in a different battalion of RDF as he appears in London Gazette with appointment to Lt in RDF dated from 18 Aug 1917.

A/RSM HENDERSON John Scott 14779 Mentioned in Dispatches in connection with the Dublin Rising (gazetted 25 Jan 1917). Again 25 May 1917. Again MID 25 Jul 1917. Commissioned 21 Jun 1918

A/RSM LYNCH Christopher 25573 Mentioned in Dispatches in connection with the Dublin Rising (actual gazette for this 25 Jan 1917) Another MID in gazette 28 Jan 1916, Medal Card gives enlisted 9 Jan 1914, and discharged sick on 2 April 1918.

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mhifle

Hi,

Here are parts of 25477 Private Thomas Cox service record concerning wounds he got while in Dublin.

He was with 'B' Coy, 10th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Looks like he was wounded in the Thigh and Left Eye?

In Meath Aux Hospital, Dublin 24.4.16 to 19.5.16

Regards Mark.

Hi,

Here are parts of 25477 Private Thomas Cox service record concerning wounds he got while in Dublin.

He was with 'B' Coy, 10th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Looks like he was wounded in the Thigh and Left Eye?

In Meath Aux Hospital, Dublin 24.4.16 to 19.5.16

Regards Mark.

Also

post-14045-1256565853.jpg

post-14045-1256565928.jpg

post-14045-1256565989.jpg

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corisande

Mark

Thanks for that excerpt on Cox's Service record. One can gradually put bits together. The rising broke out at noon on Mon 24th April 1916

My grandfather was with A company over that period and I have a reasonable idea now as to what A coy did. I have his diary showing he took a group from A Coy from Royal Barraks to Dublin Castle, and they were fired on from Mendicity Institute (where Heuston was based). I have now found a diary kept by one of the men inside the Mendicity Institute who records in graphic detail how he shot the RDF men, and have corresponded with his grandson!

Cox was wounded on Wednesday 26th and was with B Coy, so I'll try to track what B Coy were doing that day

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Murrough

Here is part of the SR of 25743 Michael Byrne 10th Batt. RDF from Ancestry,looks like he was wounded in the Rising.

Maybe someone can help post-10169-1257106486.jpg decipher the text.

Regards,

Murrough.

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mhifle

Hi,

This is part of 6745 Sergeant Henry Hare, 5th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers service record showing him 'Killed in Action in the Dublin Rebellion' 26-4-16

Regards Mark

post-14045-1257107535.jpg

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corisande

It is difficult to be sure, but that Michael Byrne is presumably the Michael Burns in post 16 of this thread (RDF had more than their fair share of Byrnes!)

Meath Hospital

Wounded

Michael Burns Royal Dublin Fusiliers

The problem with Sgt Henry Hare is finding where he was actually killed, as that would give further insight into the 5th RDF movements.

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