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Murrough

5th Batt.Royal Dublin Fusiliers in the Rising.

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Murrough

Description of a medal group sold in 1998 at DNW London.

Description

An Easter Rising M.B.E. group of four awarded to Major R. H. St C. C. Robinson, 5th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers

The Order of the British Empire, M.B.E. (Military) 1st type; Queen’s South Africa 1899-1902, 3 clasps, Cape Colony, Orange Free State, Transvaal (Lt., Rl. Dub. Fus.); British War and Victory Medals (Major) good very fine (4) £200-250

Footnote

Major Robinson served in the Easter Rebellion with the 5th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers, which took a prominent part in the battle of Cork Hill, around Dublin Castle and the Mail & Express offices. He subsequently sat as a Waiting Member of the General Court Martial of John (Eoin) MacNeill and others in May 1916. In recognition of his services in Ireland, Major Robinson was awarded the M.B.E. in January 1919.

This is the description of a medal group sold in 1998 in London at DNW.

Description

An Easter Rising M.B.E. group of four awarded to Major R. H. St C. C. Robinson, 5th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers

The Order of the British Empire, M.B.E. (Military) 1st type; Queen’s South Africa 1899-1902, 3 clasps, Cape Colony, Orange Free State, Transvaal (Lt., Rl. Dub. Fus.); British War and Victory Medals (Major) good very fine (4) £200-250

Footnote

Major Robinson served in the Easter Rebellion with the 5th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers, which took a prominent part in the battle of Cork Hill, around Dublin Castle and the Mail & Express offices. He subsequently sat as a Waiting Member of the General Court Martial of John (Eoin) MacNeill and others in May 1916. In recognition of his services in Ireland, Major Robinson was awarded the M.B.E. in January 1919.

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corisande

Murrough

As you started this thread, before I take look at the Irish Times for the Easter Rising, have you been through the newspaper reports on the period?

In addition I never realised that they handed out MBEs to the officers on the Courts Martial of the rebels captured.

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mhifle

Hi,

I came across this in the Manchester Guardian 14 June 1916

Regards Mark

Hi,

I came across this in the Manchester Guardian 14 June 1916

Regards Mark

Hi,

I came across this in the Manchester Guardian 14 June 1916

Regards Mark

post-14045-1257153675.jpg

post-14045-1257153711.jpg

post-14045-1257153740.jpg

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corisande

Yes, that was a very odd event, and in fact that night two other men were shot by the guard in similar circumstances, though there does not appear to have been a court martial.

Another officer and a civilian brewery employee, Lieut. Worswick and Mr. Dockeray also a Guinness worker were shot dead around the same time.

Sergeant Robert Flood (6588) served in the 5th Battalion during the Easter Rising. Born London circa 1884, he had joined RDF in 1899. He was later killed 9th May 1917 as CSM. R. Flood. Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. Husband of Frances Daisy Flood, of "Newville," Barham, Canterbury, Kent.. Born in London. It seems that after he was acquitted in 1916 he was moved from the RDF to the Royal Berkshire Regiment.

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Murrough
As you started this thread, before I take look at the Irish Times for the Easter Rising, have you been through the newspaper reports on the period?

No, I havent had a look as I do not have access.I had a look at your site via the link at the RDF forum,it is very impressive and well done.

With reference to Pte.Byrne 25743 he enlisted in Jan 1916 to the 10th and was a postman from Lucan. On your site there is a report of a H.Byrne from Lucan in one of the newspaper casualty lists,maybe the same man?

One other query you might be able to help with, why was the 10th called the Commercial battalion?

Best Regards,

Murrough.

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corisande

Afraid I struggle with the Byrnes, there are hundreds in the RDF

re 10th Battallion

The 10th Battalion was formed in Dublin on 11 Feb 1916. Its roots appear to go back a few months prior to that. A report in the Kildare Observer on 12 Dec 1915, headlined "The Commercial Pals, a New Battalion " stated:-

A meeting of the committee of the above was held at 85-86 Grafton Street on Friday of last week, Sir. Wm. Fry, J.P., D.L., presiding. There was also present - Messrs. Wm. Crowe, Wm. Sibley, James Clements, John Moran, Edward H. Andrews, J.P.; Major Arthur Whewell, Alderman James Moran, J.P., hon. secretary. Brigadier-General Hammond and Capt. Law were present during the proceedings. The financial statement was submitted, which showed subscriptions to date £503 13s., and the committee approved of placing the sum of £300 on deposit receipt in the Bank of Ireland. General Hammond reported that the "Commercial" Company would be complete and ready for moving to the Curragh Camp in a week's time, and he informed the committee that owing to the great success of the "Commercial" Company movement, due to the interest taken in the matter by the committee, the authorities had decided to form a new "Tenth" Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, and he suggested that the committee might ascertain whether the members of the "Commercial" Company, who had already joined, would prefer to remain with the Fifth Battalion or form the nucleus of the proposed new Tenth Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, and he was prepared to give effect to the wishes of his men. It was arranged that Sir John Irwin and Alderman Moran should take the necessary steps to ascertain the views of the members of the company, and accordingly a ballot was taken on the morning of the 27th inst., with the result that an overwhelming majority were in favour of joining the new Tenth Battalion, which all concerned are satisfied will be raised very quickly and the "Commercial" Company will therefore, remain for the present at the Royal Barracks, Dublin, and the committee of the club will devote their energies in furtherance of the larger scheme.

It appears therefore that the 10th Battalion started with the formation of a "Commercial Company" with the 5th Battalion, who were based at the Royal Barracks in Dublin. Those already in this Commercial Company decided to become the nucleus of the new 10th Battalion.

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Murrough

Corisande, have you ever heard the 10th Battalion called "Redmonds Shopkeepers" I have come across this term recently but I cannot recall where.

Best Regards,

Murrough.

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corisande

Redmond's Shopkeepers - yes, I have seen that once, but like you, I cannot place it.

A derisive soundbite, I would assume that it was used between the 10th Battalion;s founding in Jan 1916 and before they went to France in Aug 1916

Their roots were "commercial"

A meeting of the committee of the above was held at 85-86 Grafton Street on Friday of last week, Sir. Wm. Fry, J.P., D.L., presiding. There was also present - Messrs. Wm. Crowe, Wm. Sibley, James Clements, John Moran, Edward H. Andrews, J.P.; Major Arthur Whewell, Alderman James Moran, J.P., hon. secretary. Brigadier-General Hammond and Capt. Law were present during the proceedings. The financial statement was submitted, which showed subscriptions to date £503 13s., and the committee approved of placing the sum of £300 on deposit receipt in the Bank of Ireland. General Hammond reported that the "Commercial" Company would be complete and ready for moving to the Curragh Camp in a week's time, and he informed the committee that owing to the great success of the "Commercial" Company movement, due to the interest taken in the matter by the committee, the authorities had decided to form a new "Tenth" Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, and he suggested that the committee might ascertain whether the members of the "Commercial" Company, who had already joined, would prefer to remain with the Fifth Battalion or form the nucleus of the proposed new Tenth Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, and he was prepared to give effect to the wishes of his men. It was arranged that Sir John Irwin and Alderman Moran should take the necessary steps to ascertain the views of the members of the company, and accordingly a ballot was taken on the morning of the 27th inst., with the result that an overwhelming majority were in favour of joining the new Tenth Battalion, which all concerned are satisfied will be raised very quickly and the "Commercial" Company will therefore, remain for the present at the Royal Barracks, Dublin, and the committee of the club will devote their energies in furtherance of the larger scheme.

But its members were not as "middle class" as D Company of 7th battalion RDF with its lawyers, professors and professional men. And certainly would have evoked the sneer of "shopkeepers". You can draw your own conclusion on Remond's association. The original colonel was a Redmondite

This web site about "Nationalists at the Somme" www.greatwar.ie/batt%20-%20down/3som1dw.rtf has

At 5:45 am on the November the 13th 1916, the assault commenced over a depressing and dripping battlefield that was shrouded in fog. This effectively covered the movement of the troops who burst upon the surprised Germans. Across the River Ancre units of the 63rd (R.N.) Division battered their way into the German front line. They suffered heavy losses due to machine gun fire. In a driving snow storm which turned to sleet and then rain, the 10th Royal Dublin Fusiliers, a battalion of shopkeepers, supported by two tanks which stuck in the chalky mud, rounded up 400 prisoners. It was at this point that the Battle of the Somme ended in mutual exhaustion

One can see how the jibe arose.

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Michael Pegum
Yes, that was a very odd event, and in fact that night two other men were shot by the guard in similar circumstances, though there does not appear to have been a court martial.

Another officer and a civilian brewery employee, Lieut. Worswick and Mr. Dockeray also a Guinness worker were shot dead around the same time.

Sergeant Robert Flood (6588) served in the 5th Battalion during the Easter Rising. Born London circa 1884, he had joined RDF in 1899. He was later killed 9th May 1917 as CSM. R. Flood. Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. Husband of Frances Daisy Flood, of "Newville," Barham, Canterbury, Kent.. Born in London. It seems that after he was acquitted in 1916 he was moved from the RDF to the Royal Berkshire Regiment.

The same court martial dealt with the shooting of both officers and both civilians. It was fully reported in the "Weekly Irish Times" and the report is reproduced in the "Sinn Féin Rebellion Handbook", published as a book by the paper in 1916. The transfer of Sgt Flood to another regiment seems significant, as a reading of the evidence suggests that, at least, he had panicked and over-reacted, and that he would have been unlikely to get off so lightly in any other circumstances.

Henry Hanna, who defended Sgt. Flood, was the author of "The Pals at Suvla Bay", the account of the 7th Battalion, R.D.F., the "Dublin Pals". They were raised from members of rugby clubs in Dublin, from the social background associated with the game, and were nick-named "the toffs with the toughs". Ironically, Frank Browning, president at the time of the Irish Rugby Football Union, who was instrumental in recruiting so many men who died on Gallipoli, was himself shot during the Easter Rebellion.

Michael

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corisande

Flood's Service Records shows the transfer fairly seamless, and in fact his MIC does not mention RDF service

flood-service-1.jpg

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