Conor Dodd Posted 22 February , 2003 Share Posted 22 February , 2003 I don't know weather anybody saw th item on the news it showed some of the cemeteries in Iraq the headstones had all been smashed up and it looked as if they have been used for a rubbish dumping ground for the locals and even dead animals in it although it did say that the CWGC where ready to ship in new headstones and restore the cemeteries altogh it looks like a huge task does anybody know anything about it ? Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 22 February , 2003 Share Posted 22 February , 2003 I saw this last night on Sky news. It seemed to be a forgotten situation until as you say, mention was made of the CWGC waiting in the wings. With all the other problems in Iraq I guess repairing the damage to these graves is not top of the list to the locals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted 22 February , 2003 Share Posted 22 February , 2003 If you go to the CWGC site there is an article about this and what there are doing. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 22 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2003 Thanks for that Kevin Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 February , 2003 Share Posted 23 February , 2003 Yes, CWGC were about to sort out the situation and had obtained UN persmission (required due to the economic sanctions) to ship in new headstones etc. I believe these are already in country but I suspect that work will not commence for some time yet! I assume they will wait to see how events pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 23 February , 2003 Share Posted 23 February , 2003 Without wishing to sound like a horrid name-dropper... I'm acquainted with a former Ambassador to Iraq, whose father was an MGC gallantry award winner in, strangely enough, Mesopotamia. He was there for the start of the Iran/Iraq war and said it was a cause of regular correspondence about the state of the CWGC Cemetery in Baghdad and the memorial at Basra. But even the comparative 'friendliness' to Iraq in those days didn't preserve them, and the locals did little to protect them. Sadly, I don't hold out much hope at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 23 February , 2003 Share Posted 23 February , 2003 I believe that Indian diplomats in Baghdad had at least kept a watch on the cemeteries during recent periods when no access was available. The Times highlighted to situation a little while ago and I am sure that when the opportunity arises the CWGC will do their best. It is worth bearing in mind that the Gallipoli cemeteries were subject to some upheval between 1916 and 1919 and in certain cases the Turks relaid them with heaps to represent graves where none existed. They were in the main sorted out. At least for Iraq there are accurate plans showing where the individual graves lie and the disruption appears simply to be on the surface. I am sure all is not lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 February , 2003 Share Posted 23 February , 2003 CWGC takes a long term view in these situations. They have had to face similar problems before (ie in Lebanon). Eventually they will get the opportunity to rectify matters. 'Perpetuity' is a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted 24 February , 2003 Share Posted 24 February , 2003 The Mosul one has been completely destroyed. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJF Posted 24 February , 2003 Share Posted 24 February , 2003 There was a programme on a few weeks ago with Dan Cruickshank visiting Iraq (can't remember the title either bbc2 or channel 4). He went to a cwgc cemetery where all the headstones had been broken up and were now being used as a shelter in the corner of the cemetery where a hermit was living. The programme stated that the destruction of the headstones had started after the Gulf War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hornby Posted 10 March , 2003 Share Posted 10 March , 2003 There was an enlightening article about the Iraqi Cemeteries published in the Telegraph a few days ago by David Chater who is a reporter for Sky News. Unfortunately the Kut Cemetery seems to be in a particularly busy area of the Southern "No Fly Zone". It appears that the Ba'athist Party have placed their Headquarters alongside the cemetery. As a result it is recieving regular visits from Allied War Planes. One can only hope that as events unfold in the Gulf peace may return soon to the area. Hopefully then attention can be turned to regeneration and not destruction. Martin Hornby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somme1916 Posted 25 March , 2003 Share Posted 25 March , 2003 I’m saddened to hear the news about the CW cemeteries in Iraq. Wishing the CWGC all the best in their endeavors to rectify this! Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 26 March , 2003 Share Posted 26 March , 2003 It is appalling to hear about this when so many cemeteries are so well looked after. Under current circumstances it isnt surprising, one just hopes that when the dust settles, literally, the situation can be rectified as soon as possible. It does raise the question of other cemeteries in the world... would they be at risk in the same way as these have been. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 26 March , 2003 Share Posted 26 March , 2003 just nipped to the cwgc site... posted this from the site.. hope its ok to do so.... will give their report and maybe save other members some time..... STATEMENT ON COMMONWEALTH WAR GRAVES IN IRAQ There are more than 54,000 Commonwealth war dead buried or commemorated at 13 locations in Iraq. The majority of these casualties occurred during the Mesopotamian campaign against the Ottoman Turks in World War One. Maintenance became difficult during the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s but continued until the onset of the Gulf War in 1990. Since 1996 Commission staff have made a number of visits to Iraq and some renovation work was possible before the resumption of bombing in 1998 brought further delays. These and the effects of two wars and years of sanctions have left all of the cemeteries in need of attention and although there has been considerable damage to the fabric of the cemeteries, there has been no threat to the land or disturbance of the burials. Persistent visits by Commission staff since 1998 secured an agreement to resume work in December 2001 and plans were laid for a rolling maintenance programme with the full agreement and co-operation of the Iraqi authorities. By the end of February this year the first phase of work had been completed in the largest of the Commission’s cemeteries in Iraq, Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery, with the installation of a new perimeter fence and construction of a caretaker/watchman’s quarters. More than 500 new headstones had also arrived in Baghdad in the first phase of a major headstone replacement programme. The current crisis has, of course, brought all work in Iraq to a halt. However the Commission takes the long term view of the situation and although we have suffered many setbacks, parallels can be drawn between the current difficulties in Iraq and those faced in the Lebanon some years ago. As a result of the long civil war Beirut War Cemetery became a wilderness but it has now been fully restored by the Commission. The task is much greater in Iraq because of the number and spread of the cemeteries but the Commission wishes to reassure the public that when circumstances permit, it will do everything in its power to restore the graves to a fitting standard. source CWGC.ORG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 26 March , 2003 Share Posted 26 March , 2003 I saw a documentary yesterday about Iraq, said to be from 2003, and there were images shown from the CWGC cemetery and the grave of the General (Maude IIRC). Also images of the German war cemetery were shown. All appeared still in pretty good shape. Don't know how old the images really were though. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted 27 March , 2003 Share Posted 27 March , 2003 I don't know about the war cemetery in Baghdad but the Mosul one has been smashed up. A few days ago a previous British Ambassador in Iraq told me that General Mauide's statue outside the British Residency there was smashed and pulled down by the mob in 1958 but thirty years later, when he was there, he rescued a plaque and had it set up inside the Embassy Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 29 March , 2003 Share Posted 29 March , 2003 Have just emailed Sky news about this aspect and see if somehow amongst all the info coming in they might just pick it up.. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 12 July , 2004 Share Posted 12 July , 2004 I was just wondering if anyone knew if in the past 15 months anything has been done to preserve some of the cemetaries. Of course there are many other things still going on over in that region, but I thought there might be a more recent update. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted 12 July , 2004 Share Posted 12 July , 2004 I was just wondering if anyone knew if in the past 15 months anything has been done to preserve some of the cemetaries. Of course there are many other things still going on over in that region, but I thought there might be a more recent update. There was a rather unfortunate (not to mention mis-directed) incident at Gaza CWGC Cemetery in May: War graves hit over Iraq 'abuse' A long-standing "problem" is the relocation - by Saddam - of the Basra War Memorial, which I think it's doubtful will be resolved: Basra's 'lost' imperial war grave It's not exactly a new story, and I first came across the fate of the Memorial - which I think was moved in 1997 - three years ago when it turned out a Bridlington lad is amongst those comemorated on it. This report does bring something of a lump to the throat: Lost British graveyard found in Iraq I hope that Mr Hassan got his thirteen year's worth of back-pay! Seems a small price for such dedication. It's worth noting, though, that the CWGC's own details of Amara War Cemetery state that the headstones were removed in 1933 due to erosion problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummy Posted 12 July , 2004 Share Posted 12 July , 2004 I see that in the last article it mentions that Basra war cemetery has british graves dating from the 1880's, I did not know that was the case ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonym Posted 12 July , 2004 Share Posted 12 July , 2004 I was just wondering if anyone knew if in the past 15 months anything has been done to preserve some of the cemetaries. Of course there are many other things still going on over in that region, but I thought there might be a more recent update. There was a rather unfortunate (not to mention mis-directed) incident at Gaza CWGC Cemetery in May: War graves hit over Iraq 'abuse' A long-standing "problem" is the relocation - by Saddam - of the Basra War Memorial, which I think it's doubtful will be resolved: Basra's 'lost' imperial war grave It's not exactly a new story, and I first came across the fate of the Memorial - which I think was moved in 1997 - three years ago when it turned out a Bridlington lad is amongst those comemorated on it. This report does bring something of a lump to the throat: Lost British graveyard found in Iraq I hope that Mr Hassan got his thirteen year's worth of back-pay! Seems a small price for such dedication. It's worth noting, though, that the CWGC's own details of Amara War Cemetery state that the headstones were removed in 1933 due to erosion problems. I read somewhere recently, I can't for the life of me remember where, but the Basra Cemetery Memorial was found, by British troops, buried out in the desert. I will do a search of my mags. and see if I can find the article, will be back if I find it Cheers Tonym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 12 July , 2004 Share Posted 12 July , 2004 The Basra Memorial was not buried in the desert but it was moved there by Saddam from its previous location and rebuilt! There were several TV news items in the early stages of the Iraq war showing the memorial in fairly good condition but in need of some TLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 12 July , 2004 Share Posted 12 July , 2004 I remember we had a similar discussion about similar places to this back at the beginning of the year Terry and this again is highlighting the problem, but wouldnt digging them all up and putting them in one grave with all the names and information back in the uk be the answer and more cost effective and less hassle--i know before you said there is more problems with the uk sites being vandelised, but surely if one large site was obtained from the goverment to put in what now be just bones and dust would also bring an end to the problem as it could be secured against vandels and also made in to a tourist attraction forgive me if thats not the right word but also educational as well. Most of the service men in these cemetries are our grandparents and gg grandparents so there cant be only but a few living spouses and direct decendants so as regards Iraq what would it be a couple of months work a few thousand little boxes and tens of lorries and problem solved forever and money making educational courses lessons back in the uk instead of costing the cwgc probably hundreds of thousands of pounds again and again Only a suggestion Terry thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted 12 July , 2004 Share Posted 12 July , 2004 I believe that a lot of damaged headstones have been taken to the British base at Umm Qasar and are being repaired or replaced there. My unit has just finished in Iraq but I speak to the unit that replaced us on a fairly regular basis and will try and find out what is going on. I do know that visiting any sites was not on due to the security state at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 12 July , 2004 Share Posted 12 July , 2004 Nigel What you suggest is not beyond the bounds of possibility in part if the situation really does become impossible. However, it is very unlikely that any bodies would be exhumed. This has never happened in large numbers in recent times. The most likely scenario would be a repeat of the precedents set in parts of Pakistan, the Soviet Union and China. When the war graves in these territories became 'unmaintainable' for geographical and political reasons, the cemeteries were left and new memorials built elsewhere to carry the names. Ironically, with the demise of the Soviet Union, the war graves there are now maintained again - so 'never say never'! CWGC take a very long term view in such matters and would not take this course of action until there had been a long period of 'no hope'. The age of the graves is not all WW1 period and the numbers are not quite as simple though. There are 20124 WW1 Commonwealth war graves plus 2295 from WW2. On top of that there are 1165 graves from the inter-war years and post WW2 which CWGC care for under contract - not forgetting 689 foreign national graves for which CWGC has assumed a responsibility of care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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