Coventry and the Motor Machine Gun Service

[delta]

Phil - that would have made him serve with G Bn

Trevor - That's nailed it - you have confimed he was with D22 at High Wood. The MC citation for the commander (Eric Robinson) states "He fought his Tank with great gallantry. Later, when his Tank became ditched, he and his crew dug for 14 hrs under heavy fire, eventually getting his tank out and back to the assembly point. (LG supplement dated 14 Nov ‘16). Certyainly no other tank crew was "holed up" for so long. Thank you indeed for making the link

Please can you ask the "author" for any further details when you can.

NSP

[tharkin56]

http://www.kenilworth-war-memorial.org.uk/

you can see a picture of white on the above site

[delta]

Trevor - that is how I found him!

I have contacted the owner of the site and sought help a week ago but so far - no joy.

However any news will be worth the wait.

Stephen

[Susan Tall]

Trevor - that is how I found him!

I have contacted the owner of the site and sought help a week ago but so far - no joy.

However any news will be worth the wait.

Stephen

Stephen, I have just e-mailed you extra details of Dudley White, sorry for the delay.

Thanks also Trevor for adding what you have on him.

Sue Tall

author of 'Kenilworth & The Great War'

[tharkin56]

sue i have posted about 20 pages of kenilworth info to you including pictures of strange and some of the other men you were msiing plus accounts from the front you should receive it tomorrow. I have four more pages here post tomorrow.

Trevor

Author of City of Coventry Roll of the Fallen

[delta]

Trevor and Sue

Thank you both for the tremendous support.

I hope your meeting here will provide you both with great success

Stephen

[mcassell]

Attached is a page from The Motor Cycle of 18 May 1916. Sorry for the poor (and probably unreadable) scan (I can send a high quality to anyone interested) but it refers to a parade at Coventry when recruits for the MMGS were told they would be going to the Heavy Section. The list contains a number of men from Coventry: W.J. Higgs, R. Hill, H.P. Johnson, A.V. Moss, R. Oldknow. The header refers to "Central Office for the Motor Machine Gun Service, Mr Geoffrey Smith, 19 Hertford Atreet, Coventry".

Members I am sure are aware that 5th Motor Machine Gun Battery was "Coventry's Own" and Geoff Smith got permission to recruit from local motorcycle clubs (The Motor Cycle of 3 December 1914 refers). The Battery left for Bisley on 30 November, marching through Coventry accompanied by a band.

[delta]

Gunner Parr - thanx for the good news

The names there are most interesting as it reveals that they were told before they got to Bisley.

PM sent

Stephen

[delta]

Higgs served with C Coy - I haven't been able to link him to a particualr tank but this may be of interest.

[tharkin56]

no picture of higgs but loading as promised letters i onwards from City of Coventry Roll of the Fallen

McGHIE, Lance Corporal, William Ironside. 40145, "A" Bn., Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch). Died, 12th Stationary Hospital, St. Pol, 6th February, 1917 from bronchitis. Age 38. Son of James and Edith McGhie. Husband of Annie E. McGhie, of 36, Northumberland Road, Coventry. Born 26th October, 1877 at Rugby. Resided Coventry. Joint Editor, ‘The Midland Telegraph’. Enlisted Coventry. Commemorated Iliffe & Sons Ltd Memorial. Educated Edinburgh. Grave Ref. D. 14. St. Pol Communal Cemetery Extension, Pas de Calais, France.

MILES, Gunner, William Joseph. 40066, A Coy., Machine Gun Corps (Tanks). Killed in action, 13th November, 1916. Born Birmingham. Resided at 190, Clay Lane. Enlisted Coventry. Commemorated Barras Green Working Mens Club. Grave Ref. II. B. 9. Mill Road Cemetery, Thiepval, France.

MONKS, Private, Henry. 200759, D Bn., Tank Corps formerly 1699, Machine Gun Corps. Killed in action, 20th November, 1917. Born Pemberton, Lancs. Enlisted Coventry. Grave .f. VIII. E. 9. Flesquieres Hill British Cemetery, France.

NAYLOR, Gunner, William. 1740, Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Died, East Africa, 25th April, 1916. Age 20. Son of Henry Naylor of 51, Rochdale Road, Bacup, Leics. Born Bacup. Enlisted Coventry. Resided Bacup. Grave Ref. VI. B. 7. Taveta Military Cemetery, Kenya.

NELSON, Company Quartermaster Sergeant, Edward Russell. 1975, Machine Gun Corps (Motors) attached Gold Coast Regiment, RWAFF. Killed in action, East Africa, 3rd February, 1917. Age 28. Born Warham, Norfolk. Enlisted Coventry. Resided Warham. Grave Ref. 4. B. 2. Dar Es Salaam War Cemetery, Tanzania.

NEWMAN, Sergeant, Herbert James. 205642, Depot, Tank Corps formerly 2104, Machine Gun Corps. Died, Home, 18th May, 1918. Born Mere, Wilts. Enlisted Coventry. Grave Ref. 1201. Mere Cemetery.

PATTINSON, Corporal, Gerald Edmond. 206126, C Coy., Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch) formerly 2212, Machine Gun Corps. Killed in action, 15th September, 1916. Age 31. Son of Charles Reginald and Helen Pattinson of Bridge Park, Gosforth, Newcastle-on-Tyne. Born Sunderland. Enlisted Coventry. Grave Ref. VII. A. 21. Combles Communal Cemetery Extension, France.

PEACE, Lance Corporal, Arnold Ross. 200567, 3rd Bn., Tank Corps formerly 2682, Machine Gun Corps. Died of wounds, 8th October, 1918. Age 25. Husband of Gertrude M. Green (formerly Peace), of 51, High St., Grantham. Born Heanor, Derby. Enlisted Coventry. Grave Ref. S. II. L. 3. St. Sever Cemetery Extension, Rouen, France.

PEBODY, Sergeant, Richard. 206118, D Coy. Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch) formerly 1672, Machine Gun Corps. Killed in action, 16th September, 1916. Age 21. Nephew of Mr. J. T. Pebody, of 24, Stephen St., Rugby. Born Rugby. Enlisted Coventry. Grave Ref. III. G. 12. A.I.F. Burial Ground, Flers, France.

ROBERTS, Gunner, John Tydwal. 2693, 15th Squadron, Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Killed in action, India, 1st June, 1919. Born New Tredegar, Mon. Enlisted Coventry. Resided Liyerorwerth. Grave Ref. Buried Peshawar (Left) B.C. VIII. 444.). Face 23, Delhi Memorial, India.

SHEPHERD, Private, Ernest John. 206102, D Bn., Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch) formerly 32100, Machine Gun Corps. Killed in action, 3rd May, 1917. Born Birmingham. Enlisted Coventry. Commemorated Wolston Memorial.Memorial Ref. Bay 10. Arras Memorial, France.

SIDEBOTTOM, Gunner, Arthur. 2694, 7th Light Armoured Car Bty., Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Killed in action, East Africa, 21st October, 1917. Born Reddish, Stockport. Enlisted Coventry. Resided Stockport. Grave Ref. 6. L. 4. Dar Es Salem War Cemetery, Tanzania.

SNAITH, Gunner, Thomas Henry. 2546, 4th Bty., Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Killed in action, 29th April, 1918. Born Elsdon, Northumberland. Enlisted Coventry. Resided Elsdon, Northumberland. Grave Ref. IIA. E. 1. Wytschaete Military Cemetery, Belgium.

SOUSTER, Private, Albert George. 109743, 12th Bn., Machine Gun Corps (Tanks) formerly Royal Field Artillery. Killed in action, 29th August, 1918. Born 24th May, 1898 at Rugby. Resided Rugby. Railway Clerk. Enlisted February, 1917. Memorial Ref. Panel 11. Vis-En-Artois Memorial, France.

STEBBING, Gunner, Sydney Reginald. 181, 3rd Battery, Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Died of wounds received at Zonnebeke by maxim fire, the previous day, died 4th May, 1915. Age 21. Son of Edwin Robert and Annabella Rebecca Stebbing, of 100, Craven Road, Rugby. Born at 3rd October, 1893 in Springfield Terrace, Coventry. Resided at Coventry. Machine Tool Maker, Rudge Works. Enlisted 28th November 1915 at Coventry. Commemorated War Memorial Park. Grave Ref. II. D. 9. Hazebrouck Communal Cemetery, Nord, France.

SUTTON, Company Sergeant Major, Hugh Hinds. 205082, Tank Corps formerly 182, Mounted Machine Gun Corps, Royal Field Artillery. Died of pneumonia, 12th October, 1918. Age 35. Son of William Sutton, of Coventry. Born St. Michael’s Parish. Resided at 15, Albany Road. Enlisted Coventry. Commemorated Holy Trinity Panels. Grave Ref. 54. 6. Coventry (London Road) Cemetery.

TERHEEGE, Gunner, Albert. 685, 11th Bty., Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Killed in action, 16th April , 1918. Age 26. Husband of Elsie Terheege, of 30, Aylesford Street, Coventry. Born August, 1892 in St. Michael’s Parish. Resided Coventry. Traveller. Enlisted 1915 at Coventry. Grave Ref. I. H. 43. Voormezeele Enclosures No.1 and No.2, Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium.

TIFFIN, Private, Henry James. 200565, C Bn., Tank Corps formerly 2678, Machine Gun Corps. Killed in action, 20th November, 1917. Age 25. Son of John and Annas E. Tiffin of Ravenbank, Kirkswald, Cumberland. Born Kirkswald, Cumberland. Enlisted Coventry. Memorial Ref. Panel 13. Cambrai Memorial, Louveral, France.

WALLACE, Private, Herbert. 206183, A Bn., Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch) formerly 38424, Machine Gun Corps. Killed in action, 8th June, 1917. Age 27. Son of William and Elizabeth Wallace of 21, St. John Street, Rugby. Born Blakesby, Northants. Enlisted Coventry. Grave Ref. III. C. IS. Dickebusch New Military Cemetery Extension, Belgium.

WEBB, Sergeant, Reginald William. 80309, Machine Gun Corps (Locker Lampson’s Armoured Cars). Died at Hospital in Baghdad, 29th November, 1918. Age 18. Born 22nd January, 1900 at Coventry. Resided at 88, Cox Street. Turner, Grinding Department, Rudge Works. Enlisted May, 1918. Grave Ref. XI. G. 1. Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery, Iraq.

WILLIAMS, Lance Corporal, Edward George. 200788, D Bn., Tank Corps formerly 2512, Machine Gun Corps. Killed in action, 9th October, 1917. Age 25. Son of Thomas William of Ty-Nant, Penrhys Road, Tylorstown, Rhonda, Glam. Born Ferndale, Glamorgan. Enlisted Coventry. Memorial Ref. Panel 159 to 160. Tyne Cot Memorial, Belgium.

WILLIAMS, Gunner, Fred. 1132, 7th Bty., Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Died of wounds, 30th April, 1918. Age 20. Son of Ann Jane Williams of Langtree Cottage, Kirkby, Liverpool. Born Liverpool. Enlisted Coventry. Resided Liverpool. Grave Ref. I. E. 24. Arneke British Cemetery, France.

WILSON, Private, Tom Fleming. 206134, Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch) formerly 2690, Machine Gun Corps. Died of wounds, 22nd September, 1916. Enlisted Coventry. Grave Ref. IV. H. 6. Heilly Station Cemetery, Meri-Court-L'Abbe, France.

WRIGHT, Sergeant, Arthur Tyne. 86361, Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Mesopotamia, Died, 8th October, 1918. Born 15th January, 1898, in Ash Grove. Resided at 77, Ransom Road. Machine tool fitter. Enlisted May, 1918. Commemorated War Memorial Park. Grave Ref. V. E. 3. Tehran War Cemetery, Iran.

This was a search on machine then i filtered out infantry i wil do a further search on tank

[tharkin56]

Picture of men called in from south africa via the magazine

the collins family in the MMGS

picture of the collins family in the mmgs

[tharkin56]

MMGS RECRUITS SOUTH AFRICANS

with previous picture

having travlled thousand of miles the men presented themselves at the coventry recruiting office and being experienced motorists were accepted by geoffrey smith editor of the motor cycle for the MMGS. Both came from south and are members mr r .v edouard and mr h. pattison. Mr pattison a native will be remebered in the city where he received his engineering training. and the BSA rudge whitworth and singer taking up a good post in kimberley. mr edouard a south african by birth. Both men fought against the germans in africa

[Guest philamey]

Trevor - you are an absolute star - thank you

William Debenham was a crewman in tank D12, commanded by Capt Graeme Nixon which suuported the new Zealand Division and was killed when the tank was hit by German artillery fire on the western edge of Flers.

Doodson was one of the first men ever to go into action - he was crew in D1, commanded by Harold Mortimore. My website includes much more info, most provided by David Tattersfield.

Cpl Evans is one of many C Company men whose tank on 15th September is unknown. Similarly Robert Hillhouse but you may be interested to know that, in 1901 (aged 15 years), he was employed as a railway clerk and living at Oakbank Old Kilpatrick. He was later Mentioned In Despatches.

Gardner is not of those listed in either C or D Coy but he is clearly an early tankee; he may have deployed with either A or B Coy and then stayed with D on its formation.

Bertie Giles was a crewman in C14.

2929 Cpl Clarence Wilfred Edwards was born January ‘96. A metal and celluloid glass case marker his next of kin was his father, John Thomas Edwards. Attested at Coventry on 1 Dec ‘15 aged 19 years 330 days height 5 ft 9 ½ inch; chest 39½ inch with 4 inch expansion). Allocated number 2929 in the MMGS, he was mobilised and approved at Bisley on 20 Mar ‘16. Promoted aLCpl on 13 May ‘16 then posted to C Coy on 27 May, he was promoted Cpl on 27 Jun. Admitted Bury St Edmunds Hosp with tonsillitis 5 to 15 Aug ‘16, he deployed to France with C Coy on 24 Aug ‘16, arriving Le Havre the next day. Transferred to C Bn on its formation 18 November ‘16, he was Hospised 31 January ‘17. Promoted to Cpl to complete establishment wef 6 Feb ‘17; then returned to duty with C Bn on 7 Feb ‘17. Probably fought at the Battle of Arras and certainly attended 6 lb course at 2 Bde Tank School from 14 to 19 May ‘17. Later 200599 Tank Corps, he was granted UK leave from 5 to 19 Dec ‘17 (presumably having fought through the battle of Cambrai). Converted on Whippet Tanks when C Bn as rebadged at 3rd Lt Bn. On 21 August ‘18, near Achiet Le Grand, together with 112399 Gnr SL Clark, “after their tank had been knocked out by a direct hit from enemy artillery, displayed most conspicuous gallantry by rescuing many injured infantry who were lying out in the open exposed to intense artillery and machine gun fire. They carried many to a place of safety and showed the greatest contempt of danger” for which both men were awarded the Military Medal (LG 24 Jan ‘19). Wounded in action on 28 August ‘18; casevaced to CCS, then Hosp in Etaples and Trouville but not to the UK. At Reinforcement Depot from 21 to 26 Sep ‘18, then returned to duty with 3 Bn 26 Sep ‘18. Promoted Sergt on 18 Oct ‘18. He returned to the UK on 13 Feb and was demobilised 17 Feb ‘19. His MM was sent to home address on 23 Aug ‘19, Edwards having declined to have it presented. In 1925 he was still living at the same address.

Would be especially grateful for his photo.

Stephen

[tharkin56]

Let me know what your after

Trevor

[delta]

Hi Trevor - if you have any photos, I would be obliged

Welcome to the Forum Philip

Stephen

[tharkin56]

Stephen,

I have 1500 photos of men who were killed and 3000 photos of men who served. Are you after purely the MMGS men if so give me couple of days.

Trevor

[delta]

Trevor - That's an impressive collection - well done indeed.

One of my "regrets" is that, as I research the first tanjk crews, that I am unable to put a face to a name.

Not just those who paid the ultimate price but also those who served and whose sevrice has been lost to history.

Please don;t rush or put yourself out; but.....

at some time, as you do through your collection, I would really be grateful if you could share any photos of those who served with the First Tank Crews

who had a Coventry connection. http://www.firsttankcrews.com/coventryconnections.htm

Stephen

[JVB]

Trevor

That is a superb piece of news. I think you will find that the officer was Lt J A Coghlan who fought in Damon II in that action. He was certainly in Watson's company (11th) and one of the first tank crews, Pte George Thornton, was in the same tank - he lost an arm and was discharged.

Does the Kenilworth history indiciate wther Dudley was in the first tank battle at the Somme?

Stephen

Hi all,

searching for relatives of the Pte George Thornton !

On the famous website : http://www.firsttankcrews.com/tankcrewsd13tod19.htm

there's all the information we arleady have on him :

"Gnr Thornton - probably Pte George Thornton who enlisted 12 Dec 1915. Later renumbered 200895, he served in 11 Coy (Watsons) and therefore may have fought at the 1st Battle of Bullecourt. He was a member of the crew of Damon II (skipper - Lt John Coghlan) and was injured on 9th Oct 1917 during an attack IN Poelcapelle. Coghlan wrote an article after the war which says that Thornton lost his arm when the tank was hit by an enemy shell. (Close to the site of the new Tank Memorial at Poelkapelle - Dudley White, Henry Hiscott/Hiscox and Edward Williams were KIA in the same action). Coghlan's daughter Mary told Vince McGarry that George Thornton retrained as a technician after being invalided out of the Army (discharged as a Pte on 25 Mar 1919 and awarded a Silver War Badge) - and that he made a 10” model of Damon II and gave it to John Coghlan at some point after the war"

Is anyone able to give us a hand or a clue on where to start ?

I recently met Mary Ward here in Poelkapelle. Last 9th october we honoured her father Jack Coghlan on the very site his tank got stuck.

Next year we will put one of his killed crewman: Dudley White in the picture as we have find relatives of him also.

But looking ahead I try to find relatives of other crewmembers and Georges seems to be the easiest at first sight, because we know already so much about him.

Hope to be able to find them some day.

Greetings

Johan Vanbeselaere

Poelcapelle 1917 Association vzw

Belgium

[mcassell]

Following up a number of 'coincidences', I have compiled the following list which I believe is the original complement of No.5 Motor Machine Gun Battery, 'Coventry's Own' which went to France on 9 March 1915. Many transferred to D Battalion, Heavy Branch, on disbandment of the Battery around 8 November 1916 though none would have served in the first Tank action. A few numbers are not represented though the total roster including untraced men is close to the '34 vacancies' that Geoff Smith noted as available in The Motor Cycle of 3 December 1914. Hope it is of interest.

160 BUCKINGHAM, Fred; enl. Coventry 28 November 14

161 CLARKE, Ernest, later 205652 Tank Corps

162 COCKER, Henry H., later 206109 Tank Corps; KIA 10 April 1917; from Coventry

163 DICKSON, Lionel; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; ABDR. 2 December 1914; MM

164 DOUGLAS, Donald Cameron; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; later 205579 Tank Corps

165 DOVEY, Harry; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; later 200669 Tank Corps

166 EVERALL, Stephen; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914

167 FALVEY, Henry; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; later 201658 Tank Corps

169 HAMMOND, Arthur; enl. 3 December 1914

170 HALL, Charles Boswell; from Leamington

171 HEGAN, Harold; commissioned MGC 16 December 1915; from Coventry

172 HATHAWAY, Sydney Cornelius; commissioned RFC; KIA 12 January 1916

173 HOOPER, Stanley; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; KIA 7 November 1915

174 KING, Frank; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; later 157755 RGA

175 LEE, William; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; later 200701 Tank Corps

176 MASON, Tom; enl; Coventry 1 December 1914; later 200702 Tank Corps

177 MOAKES, John Curtis; commissioned RE; KIA 5 September 16;

178 MOORE, Alfred;

179 PYOTT, David; from Coventry; later 200703 Tank Corps and RE

180 RYCROFT, Nelson Wynne; commissioned Bedfordshire Regiment; KIA 25 September 17

181 STEBBING, Sidney Reginald; KIA 3 May 15; from Coventry

183 TEBBUTT, Horace Mark; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; later 200704 Tank Corps

184 TEBUTT, Walter; enl. Coventry 28 November 1914; later 201747 Tank Corps

186 VERRY, Albert; enl. 28 November 1914; SWB; from Coventry

187 WILKINS, W enl. 27 November 1914

189 PENNY, Thomas

191 PALMER, Archibald James; BSM; commissioned MGC/Tank Corps; OBE; from Coventry

193 ALMOND, Edward Ronald; enl. Coventry 3 December 1914

[delta]

Thanx for following this up

[ccsk]

Found another one - this time a casualty at Flers Courcellette

2094 Gnr Tom Fleming Wilson (also shown as 206134 Tanks ) possibly born Grasmere, Westmoreland in Dec '88. Resided and enlisted Coventry, fied of his wounds on 22 Sept '16 presumably as a result of injuries sustained in action with D15 on the morning of 16th Sept.

He is buried at Heilly Station Cemetery, Mericourt-L'abbe. No age of family details so any assistance would be appreciated.

Stephen

Hi Stephen

Details from Births Marriages and Deaths Index

Births Dec 1888 (>99%) WILSON Tom Fleming Kendal 10b 668

He is the only person having been registered with this name (also Tom is his full name rather than a shortened version of Thomas)

Details from 1911 Census

WILSON, Mary Head Widow F 75 1836 Grasmere Westmorland WILSON, Tom Fleming Boarder Single M 22 1889 Journeyman Joiner House Grasmere Westmorland

Although he is shown as a boarder above, which indicates no relationship to Mary the head of the household, she is actually his grandmother.

I have also found him on the 1891 and 1901 census results and she is there on both and shown as his grandmother. His grandfather, John Wilson (born c.1844 in Grassmere) is shown on the 1891 census but he has died by 1901 as Mary is shown on this as being a widow. There are no parents shown for him on any of these and, without a copy of the birth certificate, there is no way of pursuing this further.

As Mary was aged 75 on the 1911 census I am guessing she had died before Tom succumbed to his wounds, hence there being no next of kin details given on the CWGC site.

I have copies of all 3 census results, if I could work out how to attach images to PM's I could send you them!! Or, if you do want them, can I get an email address to send them to from http://firsttankcrews.com/?

Hope this helps, regards, Steve

[delta]

Hello Steve

Thanks for following this up; it;s most kind.

If the census records are available on Ancestry, I should be able to access them

[delta]

Probate granted to Dorothy Ann Harrison – spinster - £229

[GraemeClarke]

Morning Tharkin56

Interested in seeing the picture of Stanley Hooper is you could post it, please. (or is that him in the photo in #13.

many thanks,

Regards,

Graeme

[tharkin56]

Thats him in 13 a relative