matthew lucas Posted 5 July , 2009 Share Posted 5 July , 2009 posting this on behalf of a friend. His 2 Great uncles were killed on 20 July 1917 whilst serviving with this unit, they are buried at Vlamertinghe along with 14 members of the Ammunition column (126 Bde 39 Div) and members of the Liverpool Scottish. My friend would like to know where the ammunition dump was that expolded killing these men (according to paul Chapman's Cameos of the western Front) well thst what is thought. Now we want to know where the dump was (Near Elverdinghe) and when it exploded, if not the 20th any help gratefully recieved matthew lucas Sidney george and Albert edward smith nothing in any war diaries, in fact bde diaries missing for this period and no mention in div diary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 5 July , 2009 Share Posted 5 July , 2009 Matt, I am sure you know the 2/1st Warwicks RHA became B Battery of CXXVI Brigade RFA. According to TNA the diary (WO 95/203) exists from June onwards. Is that not the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 5 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2009 that would explain why my friend has not been able to find them! there was a piece on this in the Heart of England Branch newsletter, spring 2007, so you may have seen it? matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 5 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 July , 2009 long long trail states that this Brigade was broken up in january 1917, so what happened after that? also Farndale states b battery was 18pdr so how this this fit in with a Howitzer brigade? Ita most likely me missing something realy obvious! thanks again matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 5 July , 2009 Share Posted 5 July , 2009 The 2/1st Warwickshire Battery, RHA went to France on 21st June 1917 as part of 126th Army Field Brigade armed with 18 pdrs (the remainder of the brigade was made up of 2/A HAC and 2/B HAC Batteries, RHA and 411th Battery, which transferred in from 96th Brigade, RFA on 20 March 1918). On arrival in France the personnel of the brigade were attached to various Divisional Artilleries in rotation until January 1918. During July 1917 the personnel of the brigade were serving with the 39th Divisional Artillery. A Short History of the 39th (Deptford) Divisional Artillery indicates that the artillery brigades of that unit were out of the line from the first week of July 1917 to 21 July 1917 and indicate no unusual activity during that period. The Honourable Artillery Company in the Great War which covers in some detail the activities of 2A and 2B HAC Batteries, RHA which also were part of 126th AFA Brigade, RFA also indicates nothing unusual occurring on 20 July 1917. It does indicate that the members of those two batteries were involved in digging reserve positions and suppling ammunition for the regular brigades of the 39th Divisional Artillery. As Chris indicates the War Diary of the reformed 126th AFA Brigade, RFA can be found at the PRO under WO95/203. One other thing I would point out is that Soldier's Died in the Great War (the book) indicates that Sidney George Smith was KIA on 20 July 1917 but that Albert Edward Smith was KIA on 31 July 1917. Regards, Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 6 July , 2009 Share Posted 6 July , 2009 Just to be clear, Matt, it is a different 126 Brigade RFA to the one broken up. This has caught me out once or twice before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 6 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 July , 2009 thanks chris! thankyou gentlemen i will pass all this on, i'm not sure how far my friend has got, but will pass on what you have told me at the next meting thanks again matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 9 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2009 have passed all this one, however my friend still says the diary for june is there, but July and August are missing, the only clue he has seen about this dump is in a book that mentionns an explosion at an ammunition dup, (cameos of the western front, in the shadows of hell by paul chapman) close to the village i've mentioned previously, and that 15 from the Ammunition Column were killed, any more ideas? or whrere exactly this may have takne place? he has been working on this for some time with no sucess, so am throwing it out to anyone who can help thanks matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 9 July , 2009 Share Posted 9 July , 2009 Hi Matthew, It looks like all those killed in the incident that day were buried/commemorated in the same row at Vlamertinghe New Military Cemetery: G. Stranks Rank: Gunner Regiment/Service: Royal Horse Artillery Unit Text: 2nd/1st (Warwick) Bty. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 614279 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 11. Sidney George Smith Rank: Shoeing Smith Regiment/Service: Royal Horse Artillery Unit Text: 2nd/1st (Warwick) Bty. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 614273 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 12. Arthur Henry Standbridge Rank: Driver Regiment/Service: Royal Horse Artillery Unit Text: 2nd/1st (Warwick) Bty. Age: 19 Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 614267 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 13. A.J. Prickett Rank: Driver Regiment/Service: Royal Horse Artillery Unit Text: 2nd/1st (Warwick) Bty. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 614302 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 14. C. Parsons Rank: Gunner Regiment/Service: Royal Horse Artillery Unit Text: 2nd/1st (Warwick) Bty. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 614291 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 15. Albert Edward Smith Rank: Gunner Regiment/Service: Royal Horse Artillery Unit Text: 2nd/1st (Warwick) Bty. Age: 25 Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 614264 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 16. Ernest Harold Palmer Rank: Driver Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Unit Text: 126th Army Bde. Ammunition Col. Age: 19 Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 196521 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 17. J. G. Haynes Rank: Driver Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Unit Text: 126th Bde. Ammunition Col. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 206440 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 18. W. Walters Rank: Gunner Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Unit Text: 126th Bde Ammunition Col. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 612462 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 19. Albert George Baker Rank: Driver Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Unit Text: 126th Bde. Ammunition Col. Age: 31 Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 206485 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 20. A. Fisher Rank: Driver Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Unit Text: 126th Bde. Ammunition Col. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 216729 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 21. A. Ley Rank: Driver Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Unit Text: 126th Bde. Ammunition Col. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 612494 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 22. John Charles Starkie Rank: Gunner Regiment/Service: Honourable Artillery Company Secondary Regiment: Royal Field Artillery Secondary Unit Text: attd. 126th Bde. Ammunition Col. Age: 30 Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 621646 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 23. Arthur Keen Rank: Bombardier Regiment/Service: Royal Horse Artillery Unit Text: 2nd/1st (Warwick) Bty. Secondary Unit Text: attd. 158th Army Bde. Date of Death: 20/07/1917 Service No: 614384 Grave/Memorial Reference: III. G. 24. The most significant entry being the last. It would appear that some members of 2nd/1st (Warwick) Bty and 126th Bde Ammunition Column were attached to 158th Army Bde RFA during the period you are interested in. Maybe consulting the War Diary of 158th Army Bde RFA will reveal the details you are looking for. It might also explain why nothing was mentioned in the 39th Divisional Artillery History. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 9 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2009 yes there is a story there, but we can't seem to find the exact one! well thankyou for that i shall pass that on as well Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Well, it has taken a few years but I think I have found the story. I was looking at the service record of Charles Henry Launchbury 441/614409 who had suffered Shell Shock from around 22-07-17. A rather difficult page to read indicates he was in a party of 50 men in a building when an enemy shell burst killing 16 and wounding 30. I feel sure this is the event as I've also discovered a few reported wounded from around that day: Reginald Horace Dawkins 458/614141 GSW Face, Rt. Thigh & Rt. Arm 20-07-17 Albert Edwin Unitt 469/614151 GSW Rt Leg & Foot & Eye 20-07-17 Frank Edward Morris 503/614176 GSW Thigh & Feet 20-07-17 Frederick Henry Holmshaw 512/614183 GSW Shldr, Head & R. Hand 20-07-17 William Henry Emeney 637/614292 GSW Lt Foot 21-07-17 Mark Harrison 642/614295 GSW Rt Shld, Lt Arm, Lt Foot & Face 20-07-17 Bertie Saw 819/614517 GSW Left Thigh 21-07-17 Those killed on 20-07-17 include: Albert Edward Smith 605/614264 Arthur Henry Standbridge 608/614267 Sidney George Smith 614/614273 George Stranks 620/614279 Charles Parsons 636/614291 Alfred J. Prickett 650/614302 Arthur Keen 614384 William Walters 612462 (Notts RHA) Albert Ley 612494 (Notts RHA) John Charles Starkie 624646 (HAC) Ernest Harold Palmer 196521 John G Haynes 206440 Albert George Baker 206485 Ambrose Fisher 216729 and possibly Frank Leslie Hunn 614271 who died of wounds 21-07-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 13 February , 2012 Share Posted 13 February , 2012 I have come upon this today by coincidence, in trying to work out the last days of an Anglesey-born Driver of the Warwickshire RHA and 126 AFA Brigade, who died of wounds on 30 September 1917. There is a Wetherby War Memorial website http://wetherbywarmemorial.com/id49.html dealing with an officer of the 2/1 Warwicks Battery who was killed in October 1917, but which gives a fulsome background to the unit's service on the Western Front. Amongst other details it mentions that although the unit War Diary for July & Aug 1917 is missing, an incident occurred which resulted in the award of two MCs (at least), the award being mentioned in the Brigade War Diary of 2 September. On 20 July whilst apparently in action, a large (?aerial) bomb was dropped on the battery which killed 15 men and set an ammunition dump on fire. The MC citation to Lieut. F.W.Mellor, Warwicks. RHA suggests he steadied the men and enabled half the battery to carry on firing, whilst he personally helped to extinguish the ammunition fire. A 2nd Lieut. L.L.Robinson of 126 Bde. Ammunition Column was likewise rewarded. One presumes that the author has done his research, but the description of this incident is somewhat different to that previously mentioned (shell hits a crowded building). Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 14 February , 2012 Share Posted 14 February , 2012 Clive, Thank you for pointing out the discrepancy in the reports. It would be interesting to find the MC citation for 2/Lt L. L. Robinson (I have also tried) or the War Diary of Liverpool Scottish for that same day. The note in the service record of Charles Launchbury is definitely at odds with the official line of them being in action. Would the men have been refused an MC if not in action? As the 126 AFA Brigade diary for that time is missing we must look elsewhere for confirmation of events. PS. Owen Williams would have enlisted sometime between Sept. 15th and 21st, 1915 and went straight to the camp at Narford, Norfolk. I have some movements after this to them going abroad if you want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 14 February , 2012 Share Posted 14 February , 2012 David, Williams had joined this unit because his brother was 334 Dvr. Lewis Robert Williams, who was probably with 1/1st Battery. In about April 1916 he was commissioned into the 10th Bn. RWF and killed on the Somme that August. I'd be very pleased to receive any further information as you suggest - I'll PM you with my email address. One aspect of the Wetherby article is that the 2/1st Bty. though at Ypres is said to have taken no part in any offensive action during the period mid-September/early October 1917. An aerial bomb is said to have killed an NCO and injured 11 men on 12 September, but this seems a little early for the cause of death of my man Williams at a CCS on the 30th. Do you happen to know if any other casualties are mentioned in the intervening period? Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 15 February , 2012 Share Posted 15 February , 2012 Clive, PM sent but for others, here are the casualties I have for 2/1st Warwickshire battery in August & September 1917: John Henry Lake King 803/614505 KiA 08-08-17 New Irish Farm Cemetery James Parsons 470/614152 KiA 16-08-17, Track "X" Cemetery, Belgium Cecil Merilees 603/614262 KiA 16-08-17, Track "X" Cemetery, Belgium Thomas Worrall 801/614503 KiA 16-08-17, Track "X" Cemetery, Belgium Richard Knibbs 822/614520 KiA 18-08-17, Track "X" Cemetery, Belgium Sydney Thomas Ivens 564/614231 GSW forearms 18-08-17 Harry Turner 546/614215 SW Right Thigh (Sev) 28-08-17 Albert Victor Beauchamp 623/614282 GSW L. Shoulder 28-08-17 William George James 797/614499 GSW L. Hand 07-09-17 Thomas Sabin 553/614220 Died of Wounds 12-09-17, Lijssenthoek Militery Cemetery William Rose 534/614204 GSW Lt. Leg (frac. tib.) 12-09-17 Arthur Fox 495/614169 GSW Rt. shoulder 12-09-17 Stanley Joseph Manners 820/614518 GSW Rt. Leg 12-09-17 Ernest Saw 592/614252 Bomb Wound L. Arm 12-09-17 Geffrey Nelson Cook 756/614462 Wounded in Thigh 12-09-17 John Parrock 466/614148 Bomb Wound Back 13-09-17 John Thomas Worrell 658/614306 GSW Right Elbow 13-09-17 Walter John Cowley 511/614182 GSW R. Leg 20-09-17, Amputated below knee Arthur Woodward 774/614478 Wounded 23-09-17 Wilfred Charles Burt 828/614526 Wounded 23-09-17 Bert Hawtin 621/614280 GSW Elbow, to UK 30-09-17 Owen Williams 757/614463 Died of Wounds 30-09-17, Dozinghem Military Cemetery Considering they only arrived in France on June 21st, this was a really tough introduction to the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 15 February , 2012 Share Posted 15 February , 2012 PM received with gratitude. Thanks for posting this information. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cubbington-Al Posted 2 October , 2013 Share Posted 2 October , 2013 My grandfather, Thomas Rupert Hopkins ( Known as Rupert ) enlisted 22 May 1914, Sailed from Boulogne 21/6/1917 as a Driver with 1/2 Warwickshire Royal Horse Artillery. I lived with my grandparents until I was 8 and nearby for the rest of their lives. I was the only one he talked to re. WW1 and not a great deal to me on the topic. I read of a building being hit, The 1/2 WHA attached to an ammunition column with 126 bde attached to 158th Army Bde RFA. I believe in the war diary of 158th. Of 50 men 15 were killed, 30 wounded. Including 2 brothers Albert Edward Smith, Sidney George Smith. I was told that the men were settling down to sleep in a barn, in the hay loft. My grandfather, being one of the younger men was pushed out with at least one other. They settled down in a pig sty, the barn suffered a direct hit. (He said howitzer shell). When he reached the barn, it was carnage but the 2 brothers were sitting leaning against a wall together; dead but not a mark on them. 12-9-1915 Transferred to 126 battalion RFA, 7-1-1919 to 460/15 Bde RHA Discharged 5/6/1919 I know that on 25-11-1917 he and the gun team were set at dawn to retrieve some front line guns. They were spotted, shells came over, thought they were dud...but gas shells. Orders were put masks on horses first, as he rode horses nearest the gun he had to go long way round to fit second horse mask, he caught gas and was hospitalised on 4-12-1917, I would like to know if anyone has more information and where. (Think it may have been nr Bapaume, Somme, possibly Cambrai. Any info. on the unit would be most appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 2 October , 2013 Share Posted 2 October , 2013 Cubbington Al, Your grandfather has surviving Service Records on Ancestry.co.uk (32 pages). What you have said matches the information contained in the records. He was transferred from 7th Royal War. Regt. (No. 2210) on 12-09-15 and became 755/614461 of 2/1st Warwickshire RHA (& 126 Army Bde Amm. Col. RFA). The records show he was admitted to 44 Casualty Clearing Station on November 25, 1917 and discharged from No. 3 Rest Camp on December 11, 1917. Unfortunately, Gas Poisoning is not implicated in his hospitalization but his story is plausible. I do appreciate your handed down account of the direct hit on the barn on July 20, 1917 which remains rather elusive in other records or mis-reported. I have yet to establish the attachment to 158 Army Brigade at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian J Owen Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 I am a new member of the forum and it was for me Matthew Lucas ask the question in the beginning on my behalf. I am still looking at incident and no mater how many times I look at the evidence there is always a new trail to follow. i would appreciate any assistance with the direction I should follow. In the war diary WO95/203 for the 126th Bde on the 28th June 1917 2/a Bty HAC and 2/b Bty HAC each sent working parties of 1 officer and 25 men to A30 in "sheet 28" the area of dirty bucket corner. 30 drivers were sent to the 39th divisional Ammunition Col, 2/Lt Hopper of the 126th Brigade Ammunition Col was sent to the 18th Corps Railway Ammunition Head, he took with him Bombardier Oliver and his personal servant, 1 NCO and 7 men were in a support for the ammunition dump. On the 29th June 1917 Lt F.W.Mellor (2/1st Warwick R.H.A) and 2 Lt R Wightman report to the 51st Divisional Artillery. No dairy for the 126th Bde in July/August In the diary dated September 2 1917 2/Lt F.W.Mellor* (2/1st Warwick R.H.A) and 2/Lt N.L.Robinson (126th B.A.C.) awarded the Military Cross by the King. Mellors citation appears in a previous entry. * Mellors citation a number 01377/4448 and written N of Ypres. Citation for 2/Lt Norman Lubbock Robinson R.F.A. Special Reserve. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty when in charge of a cable laying party. He displayed the greatest courage and determination in carrying out the task allotted to him in face of great difficulties and under heavy shell fire , personally laying the cable , and pushing on through a heavy barrage when the situation was obscure to gain information which could not be obtained in any other way. His energy and disregard of danger cannot be to highly praised. There were two Military Medals awarded and I believe they were awarded in the same action. One was to 614181 Bombardier H W. Rainbow, who was later to be killed on 10th October 1917,where it said he was awarded the M.M. for dressing his comrades wounds under fire when a shell burst all most on his gun pit. the other man was Gunner 614220 Thomas Sabin who died of wounds on 12th September 1917. All the men killed from Leamington, over the next few weeks were mentioned bye there families, several mention of them being in a building with others while doing there duty, and another a shell burst in the midst of a portion of the Battery. I feel the indecent took place in a triangle from Dromore Corner near Alexander farm through Brandy Camp to White Mill Camp. In Edmond Blunden's diary for 20th July he noted a large ammunition dump was hit Vlamertinge was hit by enemy shelling and set alight,but not location. The casualty from the 2/A Battery Driver 621646 J.C.Starkie K.I.A. 20th July 1917, (Elverdinghe) This is from H.A.C roll of Honor. Also in the cemetery register it should read Bombardier Arthur Keen 2/1st Warwick R.H.A. K.I.A. 20th July 1917 and not att 158th Army Bde ( October 1917, this was his brother who was in the 1st/1st (Warwick) Bty, R.H.A. Who would hold a muster roll for the 1st/1st and the 2/1st Warwick R.H.A. and would there be any documents with the happenings in the Camps, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 I have seen a handwritten roll for 1/1 Warwicks RHA, date unknown but i suspect early in war. I note that there are two Keens listed there, both later Sgts Gnr G(eorge) H M Keen 269 - next of kin at 80 Jackbrook St Leamington Driver G(eorge) Keen 410 - next of kin at Chapel House, Chipping Norton I would add that the 334 Dvr. Lewis Robert Williams 334, mentioned in an earlier post [14], is indeed listed with 1/1, with next of kin at Gwynfryn, Bendlech Bay, Anglesey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian J Owen Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Thanks for the information, with reference to George H.M keen, he was to be awarded a Military Medal, the citation reads, Keen, G.H.M. Keen., 614060, Corpl., 1/1st Warwickshire Battery R.H.A. (T.F.) Cambrai, 1917.- At the quarry near Gouzeaucourt on November 19th under hostile fire, Corporal Keen and Gunner Perks assisted Lieut. Mulholland to put out a fire in a large dump of 4.5 inch howitzer ammunition. These two men acted quickly and fearlessly, and the party undoubtedly prevented by a few minuets an explosion which would have affected the Infantry Battalion located in the quarry. (M.M immediate) 19/3/18 he was wounded 29/3/18 (Gas) his next of kin lived at 80 Tachbrook Street, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 thanks for the correction on the Keen address: the handwriting was a little obscure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian J Owen Posted 16 April , 2020 Share Posted 16 April , 2020 Not sure you can help but I am trying to trace another brother who I believe served, James William Smith. I have a photo of him standing out side a hut with a group of men and above the door it say 3/1 WAR R H A. another photo in 1926,"c sub 271 Bty R.A. (Lark hill) 68th Division. It shows him with medals up, but cannot find a medal index card for him on the W.F.A. FOLD 3 site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 16 April , 2020 Share Posted 16 April , 2020 Brian, The third line RHA batteries (like 3/1st Warwickshire RHA) were sent to Larkhill in November 1915 and to Bulford in July 1916. Collectively they were known as No. 8 Artillery Training School and later No. 8 Reserve Brigade RHA. If James went overseas he may not have been sent to one of the other Warwickshire batteries, in 1916 he could have been posted anywhere. In 1926, 271st Battery was in 68th Brigade RFA, 48th South Midland Division. Photo is likely to be from an Annual Training camp at Larkhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian J Owen Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 David, Many thanks for the information, brilliant, its nice to read and know about where they were before they left for France, fought and possibly died, I only found one medal card for a Artillery man, James William Smith, R.F.A Gunner 30744 and then the number changes to 805515, Victory R.F.A /141 B (T F) 8189 B.W.M R.F.A./141 B (T F) 8189, I am trying to find all the Smith brothers medals, I am not holding out much hope but you never know, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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