an observation on Irelands Memorial Records

[museumtom]

Irelands Memorial records is supposed to memoralise the 49,600 Irishmen that they say died in ww1. The main bulk of this database adopts the assumption that all men that died in Irish Regiments were Irishmen, this is not so.

I have just completed my fourth book on Irish vcasualties and here is what I find.

There were 752 Wicklow casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 406 of these. They missed 346.

There were 874 Wexford casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 510 of these. They missed 364.

There were 1392 Tipperary casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 956 of these. They missed 436.

There were 647 Offaly (King's County) casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 406 of these. They missed 241.

From these 4 Counties we have a total of 1380 men who are not in Irelands Memorial Records.

Now I do not have the backing of the Government nor do I have the resources available to the Government yet a little gobsheen like me can find these men. I am sure it is because I WANTED to. I went out of my way to search in every hidden corner and crack and reference available to me to remember these unfortunate lads. We live in a more open-minded society in Ireland now, perhaps it time to re-visit making an accurate book of remembrance for the irishmen and women who died in the Great War.

I put it to you that Irelands Memorial Records was a sop for the people and smacks of a conspiracy or at the least an inept attempt to record these unfortunate men.

What do you think?.

Please forgive me if I do not reply until tommorrow as I am now off to launch the Wickow War Dead in Carnew in Wicklow and have to leave for it in a few minutes

Kind regards and thanks for listening to my rant.

Tom.

[1690philip]

Tom, totally amazed at the figures not recorded on the memorials but Ireland's reluctance to acknowledge these fallen after the War needs to addressed. It is only within the past 10 years now that the Irish government is acknowledging the sacrifice of it`s people in the Great War.

So it that the reason why this is only coming to light?

I admire you in your research and I guess if you contact the local councilors in the area that you will build up your support in addressing this issue.

Like you these men paid the ultimate sacrifice and have the right to be on the memorial.

Regards,

Phil

[Desmond7]

Tom is entirely correct. The whole thing needs a complete revamp. I say it was a horlicks from the start. I don't subscribe to conspiracy I do feel the volumes were poorly put together.

The definition of 'Irish' requires a very thorough examination .... as you say, many of those who died in nominally Irish Regts were from other parts of the British Isles.

I do not see this as re-writing history. The initial attempt was deeply flawed. It is a duty in historical terms to make corrections.

Des

[PGL]

Picking up a comment by Des - many men in nominally English/Welsh/Scots units were Irish.

IMR is still a valuable resource - even if it is flawed (and I'm not suggesting it's not).

I thought it was already being rewritten with memorials like "Journey of Remembering", Tom's previous (Offaly, Tipperary, Wexford) books and his latest book (Wicklow). Isn't there a Donegal book and a Cork book as well? What about other memorials such as the Peace Park and Round Tower?

All of these memorials were began by committed and passionate individuals.

If anybody is going to do it, I'm afraid it's going to have to be "us".

If you want to do something about what you consider to be a poor state of affairs then WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

Yes, that's a challenge and, no, I'm not being confrontational. Let's have a positive plan of action and get something organised!

[Ken Devitt]

Tom,

Surely you appreciate that it was expedient for the Irish government of the time to obliterate the memory of these men.

After all, they had new heroes with which to create a new Ireland.

The men you search for are silent memories.

Kind regrds as always.

Ken

[PGL]

Wrong! So very wrong! Not you personally Ken but the idea of a "silent memory".

Those men are only silent memories if people aren't willing to speak up for them.

Tom already has and I'm willing to as well.

[Ken Devitt]

But you miss the point!

They were forgotten men for over ninety years....and why?

How nice it is that with pepole like you they have been almost found.

Ken

[tommy mcclimonds]

Tom

I think you will find that there are similiar ommisions for the 6 Northern Ireland Counties as well. But it also works both ways I have had a few who were recorded in IMR but not on either/or SDGW/CWGC, and indeed I am working on a few more at the moment.

I still think IMR is still a valuable resource/starting point, even if as Des says it was "poorly put together." I don't think it was a sop and like Des I don't really subscribe to a conspiracy theory either, well only sometimes.

You also have to remember the difficult times in Ireland when this was all pulled together without the aid of a detailed information collection plan, poor literacy rates, clear and definte criteria for inclusion/exclusion and dare I say it all done without the aid of computers. Indeed we could debate for days, and indeed have done before, the many varied and sometimes multiple reasons why names were omitted or families chose not to submit names for inclusion. Indeed we have seen with some recent "local" efforts that research could have been a bit more diligant.

On my own town war memorial for example and indeed other local memorials not to far away a considerable number of names remain unrecorded for a variety of reasons, and as each month passes another one seems to turn up for me.

Tom, it is by books like yours on Wicklow, Wexford and Tipp and the others mentioned on Cork, Kildare, Donegal, Newry, Cookstown, Portadown, etc that attempts are being made to try and correct at least some of the records. But in an effort to face up to just how large and difficult a task this was in 1921/22 I would ask you one question - Are you sure that IMR only missed out 436 from Tipp? You see, there is even now a doubt in your own mind.

Don't forget either that IMR doesn't cover Royal Navy, RFC/RAF or any Colonial Regiments.

"As long as their names are spoken, they are not forgotten."

Regards, Tommy.

PS: Hope the book launch went well, I have ordered a copy.

[kildaremark]

I always thought that the 49,000 figure was revised down to about 35,000 Irish killed in the war because of the inclusion of members of Irish regiments who were not Irish?

Certainly your figures suggest some major work needs to be done in this area. The Dublin, Cork and Belfast figures would obviously be the most revealing as they make up a substantial proportion of the population and casualties to see if the figures are way off ther mark. The qustion then will be if maybe 49,000 will be close to the real figure after all? I certainly am aware of many Kildare men not recorded as Kildare casualties. Looks like a big database problem for someone to solve.

An article in 'The Irish Sword' (Vol XX 1997) gives the following number for the counties you mention:-

Tipperary: 1,039

Wicklow: 407

Wexford: 537

Offaly: 363

The author went through all of 'Soldiers died' and came up with 30,216 Irish but still suggested up to 35,000 killed when you include the 'colonies' and USA. The article divides each county by unit so Wicklow for example includes:-

1 Sussex Yeomanry

1 South Irish Horse

12 RHA/RFA

10 RGA

3 RE

1 Grenadier Guards

1 Coldstream Guard

1 Scots Guard

47 Irish Guard

11 Kings Liverpool

17 RIR et al.

I suppose to prove that you are right, it might be worth taking the casualties for a county such as Wicklow and demonstrating a few sample regiments to try and find out why they are not recorded as Irish - for example could we compare the Guards regiments between what you have, what the Ireland's Memorial Record has what soldier died has to show where the 'errors' are. The Guards might be useful as they include both 'Irish' and 'non-Irish regiments. Any suggestions on whether somthing like this is worth doing???

Mark

[tharkin56]

whats the book on donegal called be interested see footnote

[Sean.]

Hi Tom,

I agree with you completely and indeed the remarks of the other subscribers to this thread, the discrepancies in IMR will only be rectified by people like ourselves who are willing to dig out the information on these lost men and woman.

For many years people here in Cork who had an interest in WW1 felt that the figures for the Cork causality’s was on the low side at 2240, it is only since the project team began work on the “City and County of Cork Book of Honour” that the true figure has been revealed, the new count has come in at around 3700.

There has been a number of Rolls of Honour completed in recent times which have tried to put the true count of Irishmen lost in WW1, some by individual people or teams which have been mentioned on this forum.

The task of completing a full 32 county list will not be done by any government body or committee, it will instead have to be done by individual people who have a love of WW1 history and a desire that each man and women who died during those years be remembered in a true and proper manner and those people are to be found on this Forum,

Regards,

Sean

[PGL]

How nice it is that with pepole like you they have been almost found.

Ken

What's that supposed to mean?

[grantowi]

What's that supposed to mean?

I read it as a complement to Toms efforts that he has located these men's names and can now place them where they will be remembered

Grant

[Desmond7]

I don't have a copy of Ireland's War mem Records ... but I wonder how many of these Ballymena and District men who served and died in Scottish Units are mentioned? They are set down by year and alpha order. If the guys on this list are not on it then it would indicate to me that we have some MAJOT problems .. this list just represents one town and borough villages. Anyone care to do a few checks?

Des

1914

ARMSTRONG, William, 9196, Private, 1 Black watch, KIA, October 29, 1914. Named on Ypres Memorial. Born Glenwherry, enlisted Edinburgh. Aged 31, wife Agnes at 10 Windsor Terrace, Ballymena.

BLACK, Robert, 12109, Lce. Cpl. 2 HLI, KIA October 24, 1914. Named Menin Gate Memorial. Born Ballymena, enlisted Paisley, family at Ballygarvey.

BLACK, William 11302, Cpl. 2 HLI, KIA (brother of above) November 14, 1914. Named Menin Gate. Born Ballymena, enlisted Hamilton, lived Kirkinriola, kin at Ballgarvey.

KENNEY Hugh Pte. 2nd A & SH. KIA 26th August 1914. Service no. 9722. Aged 28, son of late Robert and Jane Kenney, Randalstown. Comm. La Ferte Sous Jouarre Memorial, France.

McLEAN Alexander Lcpl. 2nd A&SH KIA 21st October 1914. Service no. 6902 Born Ballymena, enlisted Coatbridge, lived Edinburgh. Comm. Ploegsteert Memorial.

McNEILL James Pte. 1st R Scots Fus. KIA 18th October 1914. Service no, 6681. Of Ahoghill. Comm. Le Touret Memorial and 2nd Ahoghill Pres. Church.

MONTGOMERY Charles Gdsmn. 1st Scots Guards. KIA 11th November 1914. Service no. 8608. Born Ballymena enlisted Glasgow. Son of Robert and Agnes Montgomery of Killymoon Street, Cookstown. Comm. Menin Gate.

MONTGOMERY John Sgt. 2nd Gordon Highlanders KIA 29th October 1914. Service no 7486. Born Ballymena enlisted Hamilton. Son of Sarah, 94 Main Street, Calderbank, Airdrie. Comm. Tyne Cot memorial.

NEVIN William James Pte. 4th HLI Drowned near Fort Rennie on 17th September 1914. Aged 17 born Ahoghill, son of Willima of Cedar Avenue, Newtownbreda. Buried Hooe (St. John) Churchyard Ext.

1915

BROWN, Hutchinson, 15200, Private, 11 Cameronians. KIA October 20, 1915. Buried Carnoy Military Cemetery, Somme France. Born Kilcurrie, enlisted Glasgow, lived Busby.

CRAIG, John, 13674, Private, 7 Royal Scots Fusiliers. KIA September 26, 1915. Loos Memorial. Aged 23, son of Mary J. Craig, Ballee. Comm. 1st

Ahoghill Pres. Church.

DAVIDSON, Andrew Private 8th Seaforth Highlanders. KIA 25/10/1915. Service no. S/3716. Aged 33, born Ballymena. Son of Mr. Davidson, Mid Shirva Farm, Twechar. Wife and two children at Tintock. Named Loos Memorial.

FINLAY Thomas Private 1oth A&SH. KIA 25/9/1915. Service no. S/5965. Aged 20, son of Thomas, Skeagh, Carnalbana. Comm. Loos Memorial and Carnalbana Pres. Church.

LAVERTY Arthur Pte. 11th (S) Btn. HLI. KIA 25th September 1915. Service no. 19470. Born Ballymena, enlisted Coatbridge. Son of Alex Laverty, Hillmount, Cullybackey. Comm. Loos Memorial and Cuningham Mem. Pres. Church.

LEETCH, James Gdsmn. 1st Scots Guards. Missing believed killed 25th January, 1915. Service no. 9423. Aged 22, born Ballymena, enlisted Galsgow. Son of Robert and Mary Jane, Galgorm. Buried Le Touret Memorial, France. Comm. Ahoghill Church of Ireland.

McCLEARY Andrew Gdsmn. 1st Scots Guards. KIA 25th January 1915. Service no, 12428. Aged 31, born Clough, enlisted Bo’ness. Husband of Annie McCleary, 27 Murrayfield Tce. West Lothian, Scotland. Comm. Le Touret Memorial, France.

McCULLY Thomas Gdsmn. 2nd Scots Guards. KIA 17th October 1915. Service no. 12607. Aged 36, enlisted Linlithgow. Son of William McCully, Kirkinriola, Ballymena. Wife of Sarah McCully of 115 Greendykes Rd. Broxburn. Comm. Loos Memorial, Pas De Calais, France.

McILROY John Pte. 6th R.Scots.Fus. MIA/KIA Loos, 26th September 1915. Service no. 11929. Aged 25, born Paisley (acc. to SNWM) but descendants adamant he was born in Ballymena district, lived/son of Robert and Ann McIlroy of Dunnygarron, Cullybackey. Comm. Loos Memorial and 2nd Ballymena Pres. Church and Cuningham Mem. Pres. Church.

MEWHINNEY (Mawhinnie) William James Pte. 1st R Scot Fus. KIA 29th September 1915. Service no. 15841. Born Ballynafie, Portglenone. Comm. Menin Gate.

MONTGOMERY James Pte. 13th R Scots. KIA 25th November 1915. Service no 23351. Aged 21, born Ballymena, lived/son of Margaret of 10 Fountain Place, Ballymena. Comm. Loos Memorial, Pas De Calais France.

MOORE Robert Gdsmn. 2nd Scots Guards. KIA 16th May 1915. Service no. 6598. Born Ballymena enlisted Glasgow. Comm. Le Touret Memorial.

PARKE David Pte. 2nd Scots Guards. Died 16th May 1915. Service no. 10204. Aged 30, son of Moore and Lizzie of Glarryford. Comm. Le Touret Memorial, Pas De Calais and Killymurris Pres. Church.

PETERKIN John James Gdsmn. 1st Scots Guards. KIA 27th September 1915. Aged 30, born Ballymena, son of Alex Peterkin, Leith. Comm. Loos Memorial.

PORTER James Pte. 7th Seaforths. KIA 25th September 1915. Serviceno. S/2015. Born Ballybeg, Ahoghill, lived Belfast. Bros. Hugh Porter MM, RAMC and Lcpl. William Porter, Seaforths. Comm. Loos Memorial.

RAE James Hoy Pte. 12 R Scots. KIA 28th September 1915. Service no. 15973. Aged 29, sonof Jas. and Sarah, 12 Waveney Svenue. Wife Agnes Logan Rae at 148 Institution Street, Kirkcaldy. Comm. Loos Memorial.

ROBINSON, Robert Pte. 10th Cameronians. Died of wounds 17th October 1915. Aged 20, born Ballymena, lived Stanley Grove, Manchester. Son of Mrs. M J. Robinson, 196 Northumberland Road, Southampton. Buried Ste. Marie Cem. Le Havre, France.

SMITH (Smyth?) Thomas McIntyre. Pte. 1st Seaforths. KIA 16th August 1915. Service no. S/1943. Born Dungall, Clough, enlisted Johnstone, Scotland. Comm. Le Touret Memorial.

STEWART John Pte. 2nd Gordon Highlanders. KIA 11/3/1915. Service no. S/6971. Born Ballymena, enlisted Dumfries. Comm. Le Touret Memorial, France.

SURGENOR James Pte. 6th Cameron Highlanders. Service no. S/10912. KIA 26/9/1915/ Born Ahoghill, lived Glasgow. Comm. Loos Memorial and Ahoghill Church of Ireland.

WORKMAN Robert Pte. 11 Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. KIA 27/10/1915. Born Ballymena enlisted Greenock, Scotland, wife Jane at 5 Mile Street, Greenock. Comm. Loos Memorial, Pas De Calais, France.

1916

AUSTIN, Hubert Morrell, 2 Lt. 12 HLI, Missing (then KIA) August 13, 1916. Adanac Military cemetery. Son of Hugh, Belfast. Formerly Ahoghill.

BARCLAY, James, 9802, Private. 1 Gordon Highlanders, KIA, January 17, 1916. Buried La Clytte Mil. Cemetery, Belgium. Born Kells, enlisted Aberdeen. Comm. Connor Pres. Church.

BURBY (Busby) William, S/5140, Private, 11 A&SH. KIA August 21, 1916. Thiepval Memorial, Somme. Born Craigs, Cullybackey. Comm. Cuningham Memorial

Pres. Church, Cullybackey.

CAMPBELL, Robert, S/8176, Private. 7 Seaforth Highlanders. KIA July 10, 1916. Thiepval Memorial. Of Fernagh, Rasharkin. Sister of Mrs. William

Kirkpatrick, 12 Albert Place, ballymena.

CARMICHAEL Robert, S/7056, Lce. Cpl. 2 Black Watch. DOW January 9, 1916. Buried Amara War cemetery, Iraq. Born Ballymena, enlisted Kirkintilloch, Scotland. Aunst at Tannybrake, Kells.

COLGAN, Thomas (jnr.) 4291, Private, 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders. DOW from wounds received on July 30, 1916. Buried Daours Communal Cemetery Extension, Somme. Aged 19, son of Thomas (also KIA, 12 RIR) and Catherine of Galgorm Street, Ballymena.

DEMPSTER, John (MM) Private 58th Coy. MG Corps. F. S/13801 A&SH. Died of wounds 7/8th/7/1916. Aged 28, son of Francis and Margaret, Stewartfield, Broxburn. Father formerly of Broughshane. Wife Elizabeth at 84 Springwell

Street, Ballymena. Buried Becourt Military cemetery, Somme. Comm. 2nd Broughshane Pres. Church.

FISHER Hugh Private 1 Royal Scots. Died of wouns 30.10.1916. service no. 13907. Aged 22, son of Sam and Margaret, Old Green, Kells. Enlisted Glasgow.

GRAHAM, William Prte. 2nd Gordon Highlanders. KIA 1st July 1916. Service no. S/3674. Aged 25, born Broughshane. Son of Sarah, 131 Watsonville, Motherwell.

GRIBBEN Samuel Cpl. 11th (S) HLI. Died in Lincoln Hospital of wounds received at Loos. Date of death 29th February 1916. Service no. 19419. Aged 31. Son of James Gribben of The Race Course, Broughshane. Enlisted Coatsbridge, husband of Agnes of Ronald Road, Coatsbridge. Buried Lincoln Newport Ceme. Comm. 2nd Broughshane Pres. Church.

JENKINS James Pte. 10/11th HLI. KIA 31st October 1916. Service no. 2020. Aged 19, born Ballymena, enlisted Hamilton. Lived Lanarkshire. Comm. Thiepval Memorial.

KENNEDY James Pte. 1st Cameronians. KIA 3rd September 1916. Service no 9048. Born Connor, enlisted Glasgow. Buried Delville Wood Cemetery, Longueval, France.

KING James Lcpl. 7th Gordon Highlanders. Died 8th June 1916. Service no. 2894. Of Randalstown, Co. Antrim. Comm. Arras Memorial.

LAMONT John 2nd Lt. 7th KOSB. KIA 12th may 1916. Aged 26, son of John and Lillie Ann Lamont, Skerry West, Newtowncrommelin. Buried Vermelles Mil. Cemetery. France. Comm. Clough Cemetery.

LENNOX Andrew Pte. 10/11th HLI. KIA 23rd May, 1916. Service no. 17333. Born Ballymena enlisted Lanark.

McCORD William Pte. 1/8th A&SH KIA 13th November 1916. Service no. 3450. Aged 18, son of Thomas and Lizzy McCord of 17 Newington Avenue, Larne. Native of Cullybackey. Buried Milly Wood Cem. France. Comm. Cuningham Mem. Pres. Church, Cullybackey.

McGOWAN James Pte. 1/5th Seaforths. KIA 17th September 1916. Service no. 4550. Eldest son of James McGowan, Hillmount, Culybackey. Buried Cite Bonjean Cem. Armentieres. Comm. Cuningham Mem. and Cullybackey UF Churches.

McKEE William Pte. 2nd KOSB’s MIA declared dead 23rd July 1916. Service no. 22246. Born Connor/Tannybrake, Kells. Comm. ??????? and Kells Presbyterian Church.

McWHIRTER (or Mewhirter) William Pte. 2 Cameronians. KIA 20/24 July 1916. Service no. 8798. Born Craigs, Cullybackey. Enlisted Hamilton, lived Motherwell. Buried Chambrin Churchyard Ext. Pas De Calais, France. Comm. Cullybackey UF Church.

MONTGOMERY Henry (Harry) Pte. 2nd Black Watch MIA/later KIA 22nd April 1916. Service no. S/7697. Born Killyfleugh, Ballymena, living in Broxburn, Scotland. Comm. Basra Memorial, Iraq. Comm. 2nd Ballymena Pres. Church.

O’RAWE Felix Pte. 2nd R. Scots. KIA 22nd July 1916. Service no. 23248. Born Glenravel, lived Bathgate, Scotland. Comm. Thiepval memorial.

OWENS, Robert S. Pte. 2nd HLI MIA/later KIA 30th July 1916. Service No: 10716 Son of William and Jane Owens; husband of Elizabeth Owens, of Broughshane St., Ballymena, Enlisted Glasgow. Comm. Thiepval Memorial.

RAE Richard Pte. 12 R. Scots KIA 15 or 18th July 1916. Service no. 15910. Son of Jas. and Sarah Rae of 12 Waveney Avenue. Wife resided in Newtownards. Buried Quarry Cemetery, Montauban, Somme.

SMYLIE Robert Stewart Lt. 7th R Scots Fus. attached 1st Btn. KIA 14th July 1916. Raised Linenhall Street, Ballymena by mother and sisters. Linked with Bridgend, Galgorm. Headmaster of County Grammar School, Sudbury. Buried Flatiron Copse, Mametz, Somme.

1917

CAIRNS, John. 302942, Private. 1/8th A&SH. KIA April 9, 1917. Buried Highland Cemetery, Roclincourt, France. Born Ballycastle Co. Mayo. Aged 18. Parents lived Alexander Street, home address and wife at 8 James Street, Ballymena.

CLARK (Clarke) William 31310, Private, 2 Royal Scots, KIA September 26, 1917. Named Tyne Cot. Aged 20, enlisted and lived Glasgow. Son of George and Margaret, Garvaghy, Portglenone. Comm. 1st Portglenone Pres, Church.

GREENWOOD William Pte. 12th (S) Btn HLI. Died of wounds 31st July 1917. Service no. 19426 Aged 27, born Ballymena son of John and Isabella Greenwood of Broughdone. Enlisted Coatbridge, lived Airdrie. Buried Brandhoek New Mil. Cem. No. 3 Ypres. Comm. Cullybackey UF Church.

KENNEDY Samuel Pte. 10th Cameronians, KIA 19th July 1917. Service no. 11168. Born Connor, enlisted Glasgow. Buried Brandhoek Mil. Cemetery Ypres.

KERNOHAN Robert Pte. 5th Seaforth Highlanders. KIA 30th July 1917. Service no 263003. Aged 28, parents at 150 Queen Street, Harryville. Born Renfrew, Scotland. Buried No Man’s Cemetery, Boesinge, Ypres. Comm. Wellington Street Pres. Church.

KERR Isaac Pte. 7th Royal Scots. KIA 19th April 1917. Service no 276045. Aged 27, born Glenravel, enlisted Edinburgh. Paents Alex and Sarah Kerr, Skerry east, Newtowncrommelin. Buried at Gaza War Cemetery, Israel. Comm. Newtowncrommelin Pres. Church.

KERR William Pte. 9th Royal Scots, KIA 21st April 1917. Service no 352450. Aged 30, born Ballyweaney, enlisted Edinburgh. Parents Alex and Sarah at Skerry East (see above). Comm. Arras Memorial, Pas De Calais, France. and on Newtowncrommelin Pres. Church.

KIRK(Kil)PATRICK Charles Pte. 1st Seaforth Highlanders. KIA 6th November 1917. Service no. 3/3667. Aged 25, son of James and Susan Kilpatrick Dreen, Cullybackey. Comm. Basra Memorial, Iraq.

McNEILLY Duncan Pte. 8th Seaforth Highlanders. Died of wounds rec. July 1917 on 6th May 1918. Service no. S/43179. Aged 20, born Glasgow, enlisted Ballymena. Son of Sam and Mary McNeilly of Liminary, Ballymena. Died in London,buried Kells and Connor New Cemetery. Comm. Wellington Street Pres. Church.

1918

BELL, Frank, 54284, Private, 1 Cameronians (Scottish Rifles), died of pneumonia December 3, 1918. Buried Caudry British Cemetery, France. Formerly of Newtowncrommelin, son of John Gibbs Hill of Harthill, Lanarkshire, Scotland.

BROWNLEE (Brownlie), Robert Logan, 21990, Private 1 Cameronians. DOW May 13, 1918. Buried Arneke British Cemetery, France. Aged 23, son of James Dunnygarron, Cullybackey and of Agnes Wilkie (f. Brownlie) 13 Kinning Street, Glasgow.

CATHCART, John, Private, 2 Scots Guards. Died after being gassed, September 26, 1918. Buried Terlincthun British Cemetery, Pas De Calais. Aged 30, son of William and Mary, Tullygarley. Comm. 1st Ballymena Pres. Church.

COULTER, Thomas J. 267106, Lce. Cpl. 6 Black Watch. KIA May 28, 1918. Buried Ecoivres Mil. Cemetery, France. Born Govan, enlisted Glasgow, husband of Mrs. Coulter, Drumsough, Randalstown.

CUTHBERT Robert, L/cpl. 2nd Scots Guards. Died of wounds 29/3/1918. Service no. 14479. Aged 33 years, of Cloneytrace, Broughshane. Buried St. Hilaire Cemetery, France.

EWART, James private 8th Royal Scots Fusiliers. Died 19/9/1918 in Balkans theatre. Service no. 48042. Born Ballymena, enlisted Glasgow. Husband of Margaret Fulton Ewart, Crosshouse, Kilmarnock. Comm. Doiran Memorial,

Greece.

GILLESPIE James Private, 2nd Cameronians (F. Glasgow Yemonary) KIA 24/3/1918. Service no. 41266. Born Carmegrim, Ahoghill. Comm. Pozieres Memorial, France and 1st Ahoghill Pres. Church.

GRAHAMSLAW Alexander, Pte, 7/8 KOSB. Died 23rd July 1918. Service no. 19940. From Broughshane. Buried Vauxbuin Cemetery, France. Comm. 2nd Broughshane Pres. Church and village war memorial.

GREER Joseph Lcpl. 1st Gordon High. Did of wounds 5th June 1918. Service no.S/13953. Aged 23 son of M. Greer, Sprucebank, Portglenone. Buried Mont Huon Mil. Cem. Le Treport.

HAMILTON Robert Pte. 12th A&SH. KIA 19th September 1918 at Salonika. Service no. S/7727 Aged 26 associated with Craigywarren. Son of John and Martha Hamilton of Alfred Street, Ballymena. Buried Doiran Mil. Cem. Greece. Comm. Cloughwater Pres. Church.

IRELAND George Pte. 12th R Scots Fus. KIA 19th August 1918. Service no. 295561. Born Loughconnelly, Broughshane. Service no. 295561. Son of Mr. and Mrs. J. Ireland, Netherburn, Larnarkshire. Buried Le Grand Hasard Mil Cem. France.

McCARTNEY William Pte. 12th HLI (f. S/10215 Gordon Highlanders) KIA 28th September 1918. Aged 22, brother of James (DOW) and John (discharged). Son of James and Martha McCartney, Legagrane, Glenravel. Enlisted Kilsyth. Comm. Perth Cem. (China Wall) Sillebeke, Belgium. Comm. Newtowncrommelin Pres. Church.

McNEILLY Duncan Pte. 8th Seaforth Highlanders. Died of wounds rec. July 1917 on 6th May 1918. Service no. S/43179. Aged 20, born Glasgow, enlisted Ballymena. Son of Sam and Mary McNeilly of Liminary, Ballymena. Died in London,buried Kells and Connor New Cemetery. Comm. Wellington Street Pres. Church.

MITCHELL William Pte. 17th Royal Scots. KIA 28th October 1918. Service no. 59642. Aged 19, son of Richard and Mary C. Mitchell, Clarence Street, Ballymena. Lived Scotland. Buried Heestert Mil. Cem. Belgium.

ORR Frederick J. A. Sgt. 5th Cameron Highlanders KIA 21st March 1918. Service no. S/15921. Son of James Orr of Drumbare, Cloughmills. Buried Fins New Cem. Somme. Comm. Clough Pres. Church.

PITT James Pte. 5/6th Cameronians. Died of wounds 23rd September 1918. Born Ballymena, enlisted Hamilton, lived Busby. Buried Thilloy Road Cem. Beaulencourt, France.

RAINEY J. Pte. 1/8th Cameronians. Died 29th July 1918. Service no. 290563. Aged 27, sonof John and Hannah Rainey of Aughnahoy, Portglenone. Buried Raperie Brit. Cem. Villemontoire.

SINCLAIR William B. Pte. 2nd R Scots. Fus. KIA 30th July 1918. Service no 41416. Born Ballymena, lived Bellshill. Buried Meteren Cem. Nord, France.

STEWART Andrew, Lcpl. 6/7 Gordon Highlanders. KIA 14/10.1918. Service no S/11266. Buried Iwuy Cem. Nord, France. Born Ballymena, lived Airdrie.

STEWART William CSM 12th HLI. DOW 27/3/1018. Service no. 7240. Born Ballymena, lived Glasgow. Buried Warloy Baillon Cem. Somme.

[Sean.]

Hi Des,

I just did a quick check of the first ten and all are in IMR, I also came across a second William Nevin From Ballymena died 16th Aug 1917, reg no 15696, not sure if they are related. I will check the rest during the day,

Regards,

Sean

PS Des, there are 3181 entry's as born in Co Antrim on the records, 221 of those have Ballymena as place of birth.

S.

[museumtom]

Hello pals. This is a great debate. Let it continue. Just back from the Wicklow launch. We will have a full page spread on page 2 of the Wicklow people this wednesday. So you will finally have a face to put to my name. It seems to be online also (http://www.wicklowpeople.ie/). Great fun, did the talk walked the walk sold a few books then played music with the brothers in the pub for the night until 3,30. Some Re-enactors came over from Cork and brought Carnew to a standstill. These type of uniforms have not been seen in the village since the 'Tans' left.

I found that IMR sometimes has little gems of information not found in CWGC or SDGW, like died from the effetcs of gas in St Stephens Hospital type of thing. Even so I have my problems with IMR it is a very valuable piece of reference work. It is great where it gives the place of birth of Officers. I have also found some men in it that are in no other database but are obviously someone else under incorrect information. Some are men who would have died after they came home and not listed elsewhere.

All in all, I would not be without it and that fact that it is in digital format so it searchable is brilliant.

Kildare Mark, I understand what you say but by going down the road of comparing Regiments is a project for someone with a lot of spare time, so I am out on that. Perhaps you could write a book on it? there should enough material to give you lots of raw material. Al;so if you compare

Tipperary: 1,039

Wicklow: 407

Wexford: 537

Offaly: 363

to my figures above you will see why such a project MUST be done to clarify it for once and for all.

PGL.

Something is being done on it, the Cork book should be out in about six months as far as I know. Laoise and perhaps Waterford will be the new two for me.

Sean.

If you are involved with the compilers Cork book let me know as I found some Cork guys in the Midland papers that will be of use to them. Interesting articles on them.

Thank you everyone for this lively debate.

Kind regards.

Tom.

[Sean.]

Thanks Tom,

I have PM you my e-mail and in relation to the Cork book we are trying for October as a date for publication.

Hi Des,

I went through the list and the names below are not on IMR, note a number of changes,

Regards,

Sean

1915.

FINLAY Thomas Private 1oth A&SH. KIA 25/9/1915. Service no. S/5965. Aged 20, son of Thomas, Skeagh, Carnalbana. Comm. Loos Memorial and Carnalbana Pres. Church.

McILROY John Pte. 6th R.Scots.Fus. MIA/KIA Loos, 26th September 1915. Service no. 11929. Aged 25, born Paisley (acc. to SNWM) but descendants adamant he was born in Ballymena district, lived/son of Robert and Ann McIlroy of Dunnygarron, Cullybackey. Comm. Loos Memorial and 2nd Ballymena Pres. Church and Cuningham Mem. Pres. Church.

1916.

DEMPSTER, John (MM) Private 58th Coy. MG Corps. F. S/13801 A&SH. Died of wounds 7/8th/7/1916. Aged 28, son of Francis and Margaret, Stewartfield, Broxburn. Father formerly of Broughshane. Wife Elizabeth at 84 Springwell

Street, Ballymena. Buried Becourt Military cemetery, Somme. Comm. 2nd Broughshane Pres. Church.

LAMONT John 2nd Lt. 7th KOSB. KIA 12th may 1916. Aged 26, son of John and Lillie Ann Lamont, Skerry West, Newtowncrommelin. Buried Vermelles Mil. Cemetery. France. Comm. Clough Cemetery.

1917.

CAIRNS, John. 302942, Private. 1/8th A&SH. KIA April 9, 1917. Buried Highland Cemetery, Roclincourt, France. Born Ballycastle Co. Mayo. Aged 18. Parents lived Alexander Street, home address and wife at 8 James Street, Ballymena.

(John is listed in the IMR as born Ballycastle, Co Mayo.)

CLARK (Clarke) William 31310, Private, 2 Royal Scots, KIA September 26, 1917. Named Tyne Cot. Aged 20, enlisted and lived Glasgow. Son of George and Margaret, Garvaghy, Portglenone. Comm. 1st Portglenone Pres, Church.

KERNOHAN Robert Pte. 5th Seaforth Highlanders. KIA 30th July 1917. Service no 263003. Aged 28, parents at 150 Queen Street, Harryville. Born Renfrew, Scotland. Buried No Man’s Cemetery, Boesinge, Ypres. Comm. Wellington Street Pres. Church.

KIRK(Kil)PATRICK Charles Pte. 1st Seaforth Highlanders. KIA 6th November 1917. Service no. 3/3667. Aged 25, son of James and Susan Kilpatrick Dreen, Cullybackey. Comm. Basra Memorial, Iraq.

(Charles is listed as KILPATRICK)

McNEILLY Duncan Pte. 8th Seaforth Highlanders. Died of wounds rec. July 1917 on 6th May 1918. Service no. S/43179. Aged 20, born Glasgow, enlisted Ballymena. Son of Sam and Mary McNeilly of Liminary, Ballymena. Died in London,buried Kells and Connor New Cemetery. Comm. Wellington Street Pres. Church. (Duncan is listed as 1918 but was born Glasgow)

1918

BELL, Frank, 54284, Private, 1 Cameronians (Scottish Rifles), died of pneumonia December 3, 1918. Buried Caudry British Cemetery, France. Formerly of Newtowncrommelin, son of John Gibbs Hill of Harthill, Lanarkshire, Scotland.

CATHCART, John, Private, 2 Scots Guards. Died after being gassed, September 26, 1918. Buried Terlincthun British Cemetery, Pas De Calais. Aged 30, son of William and Mary, Tullygarley. Comm. 1st Ballymena Pres. Church.

COULTER, Thomas J. 267106, Lce. Cpl. 6 Black Watch. KIA May 28, 1918. Buried Ecoivres Mil. Cemetery, France. Born Govan, enlisted Glasgow, husband of Mrs. Coulter, Drumsough, Randalstown. (Born Glasgow)

CUTHBERT Robert, L/cpl. 2nd Scots Guards. Died of wounds 29/3/1918. Service no. 14479. Aged 33 years, of Cloneytrace, Broughshane. Buried St. Hilaire Cemetery, France.

RAINEY J. Pte. 1/8th Cameronians. Died 29th July 1918. Service no. 290563. Aged 27, sonof John and Hannah Rainey of Aughnahoy, Portglenone. Buried Raperie Brit. Cem. Villemontoire.

[Desmond7]

Thanks Sean - the frightening thing is I bet Forum members from all over Ireland will have similar numbers of men (depending on population/memorial area) who are not on the records!

For instance - are these boys mentioned? Canadians from Ballymena & surrounding villages.

BANKHEAD, Frank John, 424544, Pirvate, 1 Canadian Mounted Rifles (Saskatchewan Regt.), DOW October 29, 1916. Buried St. Catherine Cemetery, Pas De Calais. Born Pretoria, SA. 25-year-old son of Sam and Elizabeth, Ballymena. Comm. St. Patrick’s CoI.

BLEAKLEY, James Alexander, 624781, Private, 10 Canadian Inf. (Alberta Regt.), KIA April 28, 1917. Named on Vimy Memorial. Former Principal of Tardree and Cushybracken National Schools.

BOYLE, Daniel 829213, Private, 44 Canadian Inf. (New Brunswick Regt.).DOW October 29, 1917. Buried Nine Elms British Cemetery, Belgium. Aged 27, son of W.J. and Katherine Boyle, Drumcrow, Broughshane.

BRUCE, Robert, 124459, Private, 24 Btn. Canadians. Missing presumed killed September 18, 1916. Named Vimy Memorial. Lived at Duneane, Toomebridge.

CAMERON James (MM) 160496, Sgt. 50 Canadian Inf. Regt. Died of wounds June 5, 1917. Buried Barlin Communal Cemetery, France. Aged 25, son of James and Sarah of 52 Brookhill Avenue, Belfast, formerly of Ballymena.

CLARKE, James, Private, Canadians, KIA, Comm. 1st Ahoghill Pres. Church.???????

COCHRANE Thomas Hill, 59175, Lce. Cpl. 21 Btn.E.Ontario regt. KIA November 11, 1915. Buried Ridge Wood Military Cemetery, Belgium. Son of John and Margaret Cochrane, Craigs, Cullybackey. Brother of John above. Brother Hugh was Lt. in Canadian forces.

CRAIG John, Private Canadians, KIA, Killybeg, Comm. 1st Ahoghill Pres. Church ??????

CRAIG, Robert, C, Private Borden’c Motor MG Btn. Canadians, KIA by shellfire 27 September 1916. Service No. 114556. Born Gracehill, mother Elizabeth Craig, Gracehill, Ballymena. Comm. Vimy Memorial.

CRAWFORD, Thomas, Private, 15 Canadian Inf. (Central Ontario Regt.). KIA 2/9/1918. Aged 34. Son of Thomas and Agnes Crawford, Tullymore, Broughshane. Buried Dominion Cemetery, Hendecourt-Les-Cagnicourt, France. Comm. 2nd

Broughshane Pres. Church.

CUPPLES, David Private. 31 Btn. Canadian Inf. (Alberta Regt.) KIA 11/10/1918. Service no. 2138287. Aged 25, so of David Cupples, Kells.Buried Queant Communal Cemetery, Pas de Calais. Comm. Kells Pres. Church.

DAVIS, John Cpl. 1st (Depot) Btn. Canadian Inf. (Manitoba Regt.) Died in service 30/7/1918. Aged 27, son of Archibald and late Margaret Ann, Ballynulto, Broughshane. Buried Winnipeg Cemetery, Manitoba.

DUNCAN, Andrew Warwick MC, Lt. 38 Btn. Canadian Inf. (East Ontario Regt.) KIA 9/4/1917. Aged 25 son of Archibald and Margaret, Carnearney, Kells. Buried Villers Station Cemetery, Viller Au Bois, Pas de Calais. Comm. Connor Pres. Church.

FINLAY Samuel Hanna Private Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regt.) 8th Bn. Killed by shellfire 15/02/1918. Service No: 829240 Son of Mrs. Mary J.

Finlay, of 142, Queen St., Ballymena, Co. Antrim, Ireland. Buried A. 2. Aix-Noulette Communal Cemetery extension. Comm. Wellington Street Pres.

Church.

FRANCEY, George, Private, Canadian Infantry (Quebec Regt.) 14th Bn. KIA between 12/06/1916 and 13/06/1916.Service No: 404342; Aged 25, formerly of Kells, son of John Francey. Buried Bedford House Cemetery and comm. Connor Pre. Church.

FULTON W A Private Canadian Infantry (Quebec Regt.) 42nd Bn. Died of wounds in accidental rifle discharge. 4/2/1917. Service No: 418938 . Mother at Casement Street, Ballymena. Buried Ecoivres Military Cemetery, France. Comm. Harryville Pres. Church.

GORDON William Private 4th Can. Inf. (Central Ontario) Regt. KIA 3/5/1917. Service no. 862164. Son of Smyth/Nancy Gordon, Killybegs, Slatt, Ballymena. Comm. Vimy memorial.

GORDON Robert Cpl. 1st Can. Inf. (Western Ontario) Regt. Reported missing Givenchy 15/6/1915 (believed killed). Service no. 6218. Aged 24, son of Wilson and Agnes, Straid, Gracehill. Comm. Vimy Memorial and Ahoghill Cof I.

GORDON James, Private, Canadian Infantry (Central Ontario Regt.) 15th Bn.. Died 02/03/1917 Service No: 799154. Aged 23, son of William and Martha Gordon, of Ballymarlow, Ballymena, Buried Fosse No. 10 Communal Cemetery, Pas De Calais.Comm. 1st Ballymena Pres. Church.

GORDON, Charles, Private, Canadian Infantry (Central Ontario Regt.) 4th Bn.; Died 8th October 1916 Service No: 11232. Aged 23, son of William and Martha Gordon, of Ballymarlow. Ballymena, Comm. Vimy Memorial and 1st Ballymena Pres. Church.

GREGG, Charles Gunner Canadian Field Artillery 2nd Div. Ammunition Col. (32) 1st January 1917. Service No: 476832. Aged 32, Son of John and Rose Gregg, of Ballymena, Ireland. Buried Barlin Mil. Cemetery, France.

HOLMES, A Private MM, 16th Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regt.) KIA 30th April 1917. Service No: A/21026. Second son of David and Jane Holmes, Hugomont Villas, Ballymena. Buried Orchard Dump Cemetery, Vimy Ridge. Comm. Ballymena New Cemetery.

IRVINE Robert McCartney, Pte. Canadians. Service no. 190204. Son of Sam of Hillmount.????

KEENAN William Pte. 58th Can. Inf. (Central Ontario) KIA 28th August 1918. Service no. 250142. Aged 22. Formerly of Cullybackey. Son of James and Annie Keenan of 27 Robina Street, Toronto. Comm. Vimy Memorial.

KERR Henry Pte. 58th Can. Inf. (Central Ontario). KIA 20th September 1916. Service no. 452004. Son of Henry Kerr, Craigs, Cullybackey. Buried Courcelette British Cemetery, France. Comm. Cuningham Memorial Pres. Church.

LAVERTY Alexander Private 38th Canadian Infantry (Eastern Ontario Regt.)

Died of wounds 22nd December 1916.Service No: 410343. Son of Arthur Laverty of Hillmount, Culybackey. Buried St. sever Cem. Rouen. Comm. Cuningham Memorial.

MAYBIN Richard Pte. 1 Can. Mounted Rifles Died 2nd June 1916. Service no. 106392. Aged 21, son of Margaret Maybin, Lisnamurrican, Broughshane. Comm. Menin Gate and 1st Broughshane Pres. Church.

McCOSH Samuel James Pte. 46th Can Inf. (Saskatchewan Regt) KIA 2nd September 1918. Service no. 781211. Aged 30, son of David and Lydia McCosh, Knockboy, Broughshane. Buried Dury Crucifix Cem. France.

McFADDEN Samuel Pte. 1st Can. Inf. (Western Ontario regt) Died of wounds 4th April 1917. Service no 772240. Aged 25, son of William and Nancy McFadden, 27 Herbert Street Larne. Lived at James Street, Ballymena before emigration. Buried Ecoivres Mil. Cem./ France (see below)

McILVENNA, William Pte. Canadian Infantry (Alberta Regt.) 50th Bn. KIA 3rd June 1917. Service No: 809001. Aged 31, Son of William and Rose McIlvenna, of Cloughogue, Gracehill, Ballymena. Buried La Chaudiere Mil. Cem.

McILVENNAN, William Pte, Canadian Infantry, 34th Bn. (Alberta Regt.) Died of wounds 9th August . Service No: 238211. Son of William and Mary McIlvennan, of 27, Mount St., Ballymena, Co. Antrim, Ireland. Buried Villiers Bretonneaux Mil. Cem.

McNEICE Archibald Sgt. 10th Can. Inf. (Alberta Regt.) RAMC. Died of wounds at no. 47 CCS 10th November 1917. Aged 27, son of Archie and Agnes McNeice of 21 Queen Street, Ballymena. Buried Dozinghem Mil. Cemetery, Belgium. Comm. Wellington Street Pres. Church.

McNEICE Robert John Pte. 8th Manitoba Regt. (Transport) CEF. KIA 26th September 1916. Service no. 461500. Lived Winnipeg, sonof Mrs. Sam McNiece of 5 Toome Road, Ballymena. Comm. Vimy Memorial and Wellington Street Pres. Church.

McNEICE Samuel Pte. 79th Btn. Can. Inf. Died 28th June 1919 after two years’ illness at sister’s house. Service no. 150166. Sister of Ellen Barr, Antrim Road, Ballymena. Son of Margaret, Toome Road. Comm. on UK War memorial 1914-18 Brockwood.

NELSON Joseph Henry Pte. 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles (Central Ontario regt.) Died 23rd April 1917. Service no 201688/201868. Aged 30, emigrated 1913, lived Toronto. Son of Joseph and Sarah Nelson of Kildrum. Shanbridge, Ballymena. Comm. Vimy memorial.

PENNY (Pennie) William Pte. 19th Can. Inf. (Central Ontario Regt) KIA 8th September 1916. Service no. 460819. Aged 28, son of James and Martha Pennie, Ballygarvey, Ballymena. Buried Warloy-Baillon Comm. cem. Ext. France. Comm. Ballymena New Cemetery.

RUTHERFORD T. George Lt. 10th Can. Inf. Died of wounds 12th October 1916. Aged 36, son of the Rev. Thomas and Margaret Rutherford of Hollywood, Co. Down. Wife Margart at Vancouver Island. Buried Etaples Mil. Cem. France. Comm. Ballymena New Cemetery and War Memorial????

SCOTT Robert Henry Pte. 28th Can. Inf. (Saskatchewan Regt) KIA 15th September 1916. Service no, 74281. Aged 42, born Ballymena. Father was the late William, brother J.B. Scott was headmaster of Model School, Ballymena. Comm. Vimy Memorial.

SMALL Robert Pte. 14th Can. Inf. (Quebec Regt.) Died in accident at Ballymena Railway Station 23rd December 1918. Service no. 308225. Aged 24, son of Sam Small of Ballyminstra, Straid, Ahoghill. Buried 2nd Ahoghill Pres. Churchyard.

SMYTH (Smith?) Frederick Robert Pte. 28th Can. Inf. (Saskatchewan Regt) KIA 28th September 1916. Service no. 74122. Aged 30, sonof Robert Smith, Portrush. father buried Kirkinriola Cem. and deceased named on stone.

WATT William Pte. 13th Btn Canadian Inf. (Quebec Regt.) Service no 25010. Died as a POW 12/5/1915. Aged 20, son of Mrs. W. Watt, Frosses, Ballymena. Buried Miederzwehren Cem. Germany. Comm. Clough Pres. Church.

WILSON Robert Pte. 20th Can. Inf. Regt. Died 5/4/1916. Service no. 58104. Aged 35. Son of Samuel and Eliza Kennedy Wilson, Main Street, Cullybackey. Buried Lijssenthoek Mil. Cem. Belgium. Comm. Cuningham Mem. Pres. Church.

[Desmond7]

Or these boys who died while serving with ANZAC units?

ARMSTRONG, Andrew, 12958, Private, 1 Canterbury Regt. NZEF, KIA December 3, 1917. Buttes New Cemetery Memorial, Belgium. From Pollee, Broughshane.

CALDWELL, James 2863, Private, 1 Otago Regt. NZ, KIA July 27, 1916. Buried Cite Bonjean Cemetery, Armetieres, France. Aged 35, son of James of 1 Clonavon Road and kin at Monaghan, Ballymena.

CAMERON, Robert Hugh 48701, Rfn. 3 Btn. NZ Rifle Brigade. KIA October 12, 1917. Buried Poelcapelle Cemetery, Belgium. Aged 42, son of John and Sarah Anne Cameron, Ballycloughan, Broughshane. Comm. Congregational Church.

CATHCART, William Rea, 7716, Private, 16 Aus, Infantry, DOW at NZ Mil. Hosp. England. Aged 30, son of Thomas of Windsor Terrace, Ballymena and also linked with Kinhilt Street. Buried Ballymena New Cemetery.

DUNN, Thomas Private 44th Btn. Australian Infantry. Died of pneumonia, 7/2/17. Service no. 2323. Aged 44, son of Charles and Margaret Dunn, Ballymena. Buried Durrington Cemetery, Wiltshire.

FALLS, James Private 51st Btn. Australian Infantry. KIA 3/9/1916 at Mouquet Farm. Service no. 4792 Aged 18, son of John and Maggie Falls, formerly of Ballymena. Buried Villiers Brettonneaux cemetery, Somme.

GALBRAITH, Robert, Private, Otago Regiment, N.Z.E.F. (2nd Bn.) Died of wounds in 13th Gen. Hospital. Received his wounds on first day in trenches (15/11/1916) passed away 8/12/1916 Service No: 15160; aged 25; son of Alex and Elizabeth Carnlea, Ballymena. Buried Boulougne Eastern Cemetery, Pas De Calais. Comm. Clough Pres. Church.

GRIBBEN, Robert, Rifleman, N.Z. Rifle Brigade, 1st Bn.. .Died of wounds 17th June, 1916. Service No: 23/1393. Aged 28. Son of James Gribben, of The Race Course, Lower Broughshane, Ballymena, Co. Antrim. Buried Bailleul Comm. Ceme. Nord. France. Comm. 2nd Broughshane Pres. Church.

McCAUGHERN William John Rfn. 4th Btn. NZ Rifle Brigade. KIA 21st August 1917. Service no 41344. Aged 37, born Crushybracken, Rasharkin. Son of Andrew and Hannah McCaughern, ‘The Cottage’, Kells. Buried La Plus Douve Cem. Belgium.

McBRIDE, Moses, Private, Otago Regiment, N.Z.E.F. 2nd KIA: 7th June 1917. Service No: 29802. .Aged 28. Son of John and Sarah Paul McBride, of Coreen, Broughshane, Co. Antrim, Ireland.Buried Wulverghem-Lindenhoek Road Military Cem. Belgium. Comm. 1st Broughshane Pres. Church

McCONNELL James Pte. 11th Australian Inf. KIA 19th may 1915. Service no. 984. Born Australia, raised in Ballymena, attended Ballymena Aacademy. Buried Lone Pine Cemetery. Gallipoli.

McCULLOUGH, James Alexander Sgt. Australian Infantry, A.I.F 42nd Bn. KIA 4th October 1917. Service No: 162 Aged 20 Son of R. and Isabell McCullough, of Punch's Creek, Millmerran, Queensland.Formerly of Kilgad Cottages, Kells. Comm. Menin Gate.

PATTON Archibald 1st Btn. 3rd NZ Rifle Brigade. KIA 12th october 1917. Service no. 18689. Aged 33, son of John and Sarah Patton of Tyanee, Portglenone. Buried Perth Cem. (China Wall) Ypres. Comm. 1st Portglenone Pres. Church.

RITCHIE John Pte. Wellington Regiment, N.Z.E.F.2nd Bn. Killed in action 15th September 1916. Service No: 23/2078. Aged 45, son of John and Hannah J. Ritchie, of Carncoagh, Rathkenny, Co. Antrim, Ireland. Comm. Caterpillar Valley (NZ Memorial) Somm and Clough Cem./Cloughwater Pres. Church.

SMYTH Archie Sgt. 10th Aus. Light Horse. Died of pneumonia 27th December 1918. Service no. 340. Aged 27, son of Robert of Crumkill. Brothers Robert Smyth (DCM) and Hugh Smyth wounded. Buried Cairo War Mem. Cemetery.

TENNANT, THOMAS Lieutenant Australian Machine Gun Corps 5th Coy. (29) 14/11/1916. Son of Robert and Elizabeth Tennant, Francis Street,Ballymena ; husband of M. Tennant, of 4, Lothair Avenue, Belfast, Ireland. Native of Ballymena, Co. Antrim.Buried Warlencourt Mil . cem.

WALLACE Samuel Pte. 34th Btn. Aus. Imperial Force. KIA 12/10/1917. Service no. 2684. Son of Sam Wallace, Crumkill. Buried Hooge Crater Cemetery Belgium. Comm. Wellington Street Pres. Church.

WEIR David DCM Pte. 7th Btn. Australian Inf. KIA 4/10/1917. Service no. 703A. Aged 27, son of Hugh and Mary Ellen. Husband of Sarah. Lisnafillan, Gracehill. Enlisted Swan Hill, Victoria. Comm. Menin Gate and Ahoghill Church of Ireland.

WILSON Robert Pte. 1 Wellington Regt.NZEF. Died of wounds 25/9/1916. Service no 10/3127. Aged 34, son of James and Sarah Anne Wilson, Ballymena. Buried Etaples Military Cem.

BELL, William McNiece, 11073, Private, 4 South African Inf. Regt., died March 24, 1918. Named on Pozieres Memorial, Somme. Aged 38, son of John Bell, 68 Queen Street, Ballymena. Wife Hanna Grace at Crumkill, Ballymena. Comm. Harryville Pres. Church.

[Sean.]

Hi Des,

yes indeed, its only when you do a proper search you see just how many were left out of the honour rolls.

I did a straw poll of both list of names and out of the 20 that I searched for none are in IMR.

When we were putting the criteria in place for the Cork book we decided to include all Cork born men from the Canadian, American and Australian forces, we tried to include as many as we could to try and get an accurate count for men lost from the county.

Regards

Sean.

[tharkin56]

Cork research do you have these men. The royal munster were bileted in coventry and known as the earlsdon coy. as coventry was divided to take the south wales borderers and the royal munster. i have pictures of some of these men

BARRY, Private, Michael. 7861, 1st Bn., Royal Munster Fusilier. Age 24. Killed in action, 12th May, 1915. Son of Mary and Patrick Barry. Resided Cork. Enlisted Tralee, Kerry. Born St. Anne’s, Kerry. Billeted in Coventry. Memorial Ref. Panel 185 to 190. Helles Memorial, Turkey.

BROWN, Lance Bombardier, John Henry. 278492, 10th Coy., Royal Garrison Artillery. Died Cork, 27th October, 1918. Born 6th March, 1890 at Northampton. Resided at 2, Bishop Street. Labourer. Enlisted October, 1914 at Coventry. Grave Ref. 7. 45. Coventry (London Road) Cemetery.

DALY, Private, Michael. 10149, 1st Bn., Royal Munster Fusiliers. Killed in action, 10th July, 1915 reported to have been shot whilst on sentry duty. Buried in the firing line. Whilst regiment billeted at Coventry, resided at 89, Kingston Road. Born Cork, Ireland. Memorial Ref. Panel 185 to 190. Helles Memorial, Turkey.

ELLIS, Private, Albert Edward. 9513, 3rd Bn., Worcestershire Regiment. Died of wounds, 19th July, 1917. Born Buttevant, Co. Cork. Enlisted Coventry. Resided Coventry. Grave Ref. XXII. M. 7. Etaples Military Cemetery, France.

HORGAN, Private, Daniel. 7214, 2nd Bn., Royal Munster Fusiliers. Killed in action, 21st March, 1918. Born Cork. Enlisted Coventry. Resided Coventry. Memorial Ref. Panel 78 and 79. Pozieres Memorial, France.

REGAN, Private, M. 93935, 1st Bn., Royal Munster Fusiliers. Killed in action, 9th May, 1915. Age 25. Son of Michael and Mary Regan (nee Riordan), of Mount Bridget, Churchtown, Buttevant, Co. Cork. Grave Ref. E. 54. Lancashire Landing Cemetery, Turkey.

SULLIVAN, Second Lieutenant, Timothy. 1st Bn., Royal Munster Fusiliers. Killed in action, 4th May, 1915. Age 31. Son of Michael Sullivan, of Bantry, Co. Cork. Husband of Maud Sullivan (nee Bates) of the Albany Hotel, Coventry. Served in the South African War. Memorial Ref. Panel 185 to 190. Helles Memorial, Turkey.

[tharkin56]

Sean

I have a picture of a healey who died and was bileted in coventry do you have any pictures of your relative see if they are the same

[Sean.]

Hi Tharkin56,

Unfortunatley i dont have any photos of my grandfather, I could not even find his record so I dont know if he was at Coventry. The funny thing about the spelling of the name is that it was inscribed HEALEY on his headstone until I notified the CWGC at which time they changed it to the right spelling of Healy.

When did your relitive die and could you scan a the photo to me at sean9@iolfree.ie

In relation to the Cork List, I have all but two, they are Brown JH 278492 and Sullivan 2nd Lt, I will check these out and add them to our list.

Thank you for your post.

Regards,

Sean

[tony paley]

Lads,p

You are performing a service to all 2nd generation Irish. I don't know how many times I have experienced some ignorance regarding this sensitive subject. I have been visiting Ireland since my childhood and have noticed a distinct change in attitude. Over the last 10 years I have photographed war memorials in Ireland to illustrate the sacrifice made by Irishmen and women. I know it is off topic bu the memorial in Whitegates, Co.Cork, overlooking the harbour, also includes a list of men who gave their lives whilsr serving with the Royal Navy 1939-45.

Tony P.

[tharkin56]

i have pictures of lt sullivan on his wedding day...heres the remaining coventry men who may or may not be on the list.

BOND, Gunner, Patrick. 60868, 29th Div. Ammunition Col., Royal Field Artillery. 1st February, 1916. Age 22. Son of Patrick and Lizzie Bond, of Ireland. Husband of Margaret Bond, of 12, Bulls Head Lane, Coventry. Grave Ref. 71. Salonika (Lembet Road) Military Cemetery, Greece.

CAWLEY, Lance Sergeant, Thomas. 19733, 16th Bn., Royal Scots. Killed in action, 3rd August, 1916. Born Sligo, Ireland. Enlisted Edinburgh. Resided Coventry. Memorial Ref. Pier and Face 6 D and 7 D. Thiepval Memorial, France.

D’ARCY, Gunner, Matthew. 70468, 112th Heavy Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery. Killed in action, 5th November, 1917. Resided at Foleshill. Born Danesfort, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland. Enlisted Kilkenny. Grave Ref. VIII. I. 103. Boulogne Eastern Cemetery, France.

DARKE, Private, Percival George. Royal Munster Fusiliers. Died of wounds, Gallipoli, 29th August, 1915. Born 3rd September, 1893 at Bewdley. Resided in Ireland. Buried at sea.

DAWSON, Petty Officer, Torpedo Instructor, William Henry. HMS Kingfisher. Died, home, 13th January, 1919. Born 13th October, 1868 at Wicklow, Ireland. Resided at 7, Newcombe Road. Electrician. Reservist. Grave Ref. Plymouth.

FOX, Private, Edwin. 125114, 328th (Home Service) Field Amb., Royal Army Medical Corps. Died 1st July, 1918. Born 28th November, 1887 at Hunningham. Resided at 3, Cambridge Street. Artificial silk spinner. Enlisted August, 1917. Grave Ref. CE. 685. Grangegorman Military Cemetery, Ireland.

GERETY, Rifleman, Michael. 5868, 1st Bn., Rifle Brigade. Killed in action, Loos, 25th September, 1915. Born 13th October, 1886 at Mullingar, Watermeath, Ireland. Enlisted March, 1915 at Woolwich, Kent. Resided 63, Primrose Hill Street, Coventry. Bricklayer. Grave Ref. K. 5. Mesnil Ridge Cemetery, Mesnil-Martinsart, France.

HARRINGTON, Sergeant, John Joseph. 2694, 21st Bn., Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 21st September, 1917. Age 24. Son of John and Kate Harrington, of 51, West Orchard, Coventry, England. Native of Athlone, Co. Westmeath, Ireland. Memorial Ref. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31. Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial, Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium.

HARRINGTON, Ordinary Seaman, Richard. J/30685, HMS Bombala, Royal Navy. Killed in action with submarine, off West Coast of Africa, 2nd May, 1918. Age 20. Son of John and Kate Harrington, of 58, Alma St., Coventry. Born 1898, Athlone, Ireland. Memorial Ref. 27. Plymouth Naval Memorial, Devon.