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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

an observation on Irelands Memorial Records


museumtom

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Thank you Tharken56,

6 of the names are on IMR but are born in different county's and one PG Drake is showing as born in Worcestershire, I will check the other names out.

Hi Tony P,

Thankfully attitudes are changing which will allow those men and woman be remembered in a proper way,

Regards,

Sean

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Sean - thank you for taking time to double check my lads.

As I said above, the gaps in the official Irish record must be ginormous!

Was this product not brought out in a CD version a few years ago?

I love the fantastic side bar illustrations on the original but all that pales into insignificance when you see just how much info has not been delivered.

Des

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Excellent debate---as one who has the memorial records, I can say they have many faults--but I have found men who I would never of known about.

But we have the benefit of hindsight, resources and the internet. No displays of Cwgc records etc in those days.

Wesley Wright

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No problem Des,

Yes its on CD with a great search engine and also shows images of the pages.

Yes Wesley,

The internet has made it much easer and has given any search a better chance of success and that success is seen every day on this forum as the commitment of its members is quite evident.

Regards,

Sean

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Two pictures sent to me by one of the lads at the book launch. The first was taken in the main street the other was done at home.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clond...klaunch0016.jpg

and

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clond...klaunch0017.jpg

Regards.

Tom

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Author author! Where's yer Mugshot :lol:

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Museum Tom - congratualtions on your new book, i'll pick up a copy the next time im in Dublin.

Your experience is very similar to my own here in Inishowen. When we held our first remembrance service in Fort Dunree five years ago we had the names of 186 men from the area. After 5 years of research and people coming up to us with information, there are now 248 names on our Roll of Honour.

tharkin56 - the Donegal book you are looking for in the Donegal Book of Honour. A second edition was published four years ago and apparently there is another edition in the pipeline. I'm not exactly sure who is doing the work on it but the leading light behind the first two books was Paddy Harte in Raphoe.

To add to the bibliography, there is a book on the Galway men who died called Forgotten Heroes which was published by the Mercier Press two years ago.

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How about a face for the bould Desmond7?

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You can see it on my profile. I am HUGELY movie star-ish. Eat yer heart out.

I was reading Keith Jeffrey's essays again tonight. It was sunny, I was having one of my three for a tenner bottles of plonk .. I mused:

Wouldn't it be great if forum Irish members uploaded all thier info by county .. then someone with your patience and PGLs obvious eagerness to do some percentages and statistics could go to town!

But that 's just the Tesco vino talking!

Des

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Wife's 40th - me in Woodstock Mode

post-1582-1245785472.jpg

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2. Me and another forum member who follows the Rangers (Connaught version) doing a bluff museum pic. I am of course, the one without glasses. The Michelin bit has been removed. :ph34r:

post-1582-1245785815.jpg

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Tom/ Seamus congratulations on your book--just reading the Bray People-The Wicklow War Dead-well done--do you know where I could purchase a copy? I live in the Bray area.

Cheers

Thomas1

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Well done Tom, a trip to Eason's is on the cards.

Peter

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Tnanks guys. You cna also buy it on amazon or order ot from your local bookshop.

Kind regards.

Tom.

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Irelands Memorial records is supposed to memoralise the 49,600 Irishmen that they say died in ww1. The main bulk of this database adopts the assumption that all men that died in Irish Regiments were Irishmen, this is not so.

I have just completed my fourth book on Irish vcasualties and here is what I find.

There were 752 Wicklow casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 406 of these. They missed 346.

There were 874 Wexford casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 510 of these. They missed 364.

There were 1392 Tipperary casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 956 of these. They missed 436.

There were 647 Offaly (King's County) casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 406 of these. They missed 241.

From these 4 Counties we have a total of 1380 men who are not in Irelands Memorial Records.

Now I do not have the backing of the Government nor do I have the resources available to the Government yet a little gobsheen like me can find these men. I am sure it is because I WANTED to. I went out of my way to search in every hidden corner and crack and reference available to me to remember these unfortunate lads. We live in a more open-minded society in Ireland now, perhaps it time to re-visit making an accurate book of remembrance for the irishmen and women who died in the Great War.

I put it to you that Irelands Memorial Records was a sop for the people and smacks of a conspiracy or at the least an inept attempt to record these unfortunate men.

What do you think?.

Please forgive me if I do not reply until tommorrow as I am now off to launch the Wickow War Dead in Carnew in Wicklow and have to leave for it in a few minutes

Kind regards and thanks for listening to my rant.

Tom.

[ I was interested in your message,I had a great uncle who died and a Grand father who survived .I am only now finding out about them

Gerry

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If your great uncle is from one of the four counties above post his name here and I will give you what I have on him.

This goes for all forum pals, I am happy to help you as you have always helped me in the past. As a good buddy used to say, goodwill is a two way street.

Regards.

Tom.

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  • 1 month later...

TIPPERARY (ST. MICHAEL'S) NEW CEMETERY Eire County Tipperary CRUMMEY Private T 5875693 1st Bn. Northamptonshire Regiment. Army 28th October 1920. E. H. 111

Was actually killed in an IRA ambush near Thomastown (Tipperary) in October 1920. I wonder why his body was not returned for burial in England? Another man killed that day (Willam Hobbs RE) was returned for burial in his home town of Gillingham.

Mike

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  • 2 weeks later...
Irelands Memorial records is supposed to memoralise the 49,600 Irishmen that they say died in ww1. The main bulk of this database adopts the assumption that all men that died in Irish Regiments were Irishmen, this is not so.

I have just completed my fourth book on Irish vcasualties and here is what I find.

There were 752 Wicklow casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 406 of these. They missed 346.

There were 874 Wexford casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 510 of these. They missed 364.

There were 1392 Tipperary casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 956 of these. They missed 436.

There were 647 Offaly (King's County) casualties in ww1, Irelands Memorial Records only records 406 of these. They missed 241.

From these 4 Counties we have a total of 1380 men who are not in Irelands Memorial Records.

Now I do not have the backing of the Government nor do I have the resources available to the Government yet a little gobsheen like me can find these men. I am sure it is because I WANTED to. I went out of my way to search in every hidden corner and crack and reference available to me to remember these unfortunate lads. We live in a more open-minded society in Ireland now, perhaps it time to re-visit making an accurate book of remembrance for the irishmen and women who died in the Great War.

I put it to you that Irelands Memorial Records was a sop for the people and smacks of a conspiracy or at the least an inept attempt to record these unfortunate men.

What do you think?.

Please forgive me if I do not reply until tommorrow as I am now off to launch the Wickow War Dead in Carnew in Wicklow and have to leave for it in a few minutes

Kind regards and thanks for listening to my rant.

Tom.

Hi Tom

did you see any patterns for the extra names you got in addition to the basic IMR data ? (IMR is now on CD and easier to reconcile to other sources)

IMR is really just the place of birth info per Soldiers Died in the Great War for the Irish Regiments and a useful extraction of Irish born Other Ranks from non-Irish units of the British Army.

It therefore does not cover

[1] British Army Officers or

[2] anyone from non-British Army units - RFC/RAF, R Navy, ANZACS, Canadians, S Africans, Indian or US Army....

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Martin.

A good question. I was surprised at the amount of doubling up of names and mixed up data on IMR. I did find some Officers in there that were not findable by their location on the CWGC. i.e next of kin info. Yes I did find some casualties in IMR that were not in the British Army. The biggest and hardest ones to find are the Yanks. I have Soldiers of the Great War but although I have it in book and CD form it is very sparse on information on birth locations. Mostly it gives where the soldiers enlisted from. The US Navy is better when it gives casualties you can get next of kin details and addresses including the fatal illness. It is surprising the amount of Sailors that died from the Flu and related illnesses. I found Canadians, Ozzies, South Africans, and Indian Army men. There is an awful lot to be found cross referencing the War Dead Databases and the main one I use for Officers are the Newspapers. Digital history books are great also as they are searchable. The only way to get a complete Irish roll of honour is if each name and number from each book is put in one single listing alphabetically, then you can see if there is any 'doubling up'.

You get the idea.

regards.

Tom.

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  • 1 year later...

[Re.Limerick casualties,I can add 3 more,due to research on a poignant split group of medals /plaques bought from the family.1)Driver Michael O'Shea,T24125 Army Service Corps.kia,12th July 1918. 2)His brother John O'Shea,Private 8730,1st Munster Fusiliers,kia 9th september 1916. 3)Their brother in law,3693a,seaman Patrick Davis,of East Coonagh,sunk on the Ascot,10th november 1918,the last ship sunk in WW1,and thus one of Irelands last casualties in WW1.HOPE THIS HELPS,aNDY.

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This superficial stuff is not acceptable. The local Stoke paper "listed" all local men who were killed, based on whether there was a local address in the CWG listings. Obviously many men for whom there was no address (but who could have been sourced from SDGW) were missed off.

I had a look at my listings for the dead of 8th North Staffords (K2 battalion). Two men from Rathmines, one from Dublin, one from Tullamore, and one from Sandymount were killed serving with 8th NS. All had formerly been in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. I also have one ex-RDF man who had been born in England and one born in Ireland who had enlisted in Scotland in the Highland Light Infantry, which raises the question of how you define the Irish dead.

I think it's so good that the Irish dead are being remembered. Keep up the good work!

Phil Healy (born in England, Scots father, Irish great grandparents!)

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