Fromelles1915 - May 9, 2009

[Victoria Burbidge]

Steve, this is wonderful. I can't thank you enough. This is going to have even more of an impact that I hoped. Marc Thompson and I are still number crunching, but Marc has completed his analysis for the 2/Northants.

Total killed = 8 officers, 189 other ranks

Only 17 of these have identified graves. 8 officers and 172 other ranks are missing and listed on Ploegsteert Memorial.

Average age of fatalities where age is shown = 24.2 years

4 other ranks killed / missing were 17 years of age.

The oldest man killed was Private J. Allen at 42 years of age.

It’s pretty sobering stuff, isn’t it? I’ve just had it confirmed by Peter Barton that a BBC news crew will be at the service. I now need to find a way of putting across in my speech the impact of these horrific losses.

Thanks again, Steve. Take the rest of the weekend off.

V.

[Victoria Burbidge]

Another of those awful facts.

Pte. Albert Edward Fellowes, 2/Northants. Killed on 9th May in the Northern Attack and commemorated on Ploegsteert Memorial. His brother, Walter Fellowes, was killed on the same day during the Southern Attack whilst serving with the 1/Northants. He's commemorated on Le Touret Memorial.

V.

[Victoria Burbidge]

And another one ........

Mark (Sparky) has e-mailed through to me the photos and details of three of his East Bergholt men. All three were killed on 9th May. What I hadn’t appreciated was that two were brothers. Walter Southgate (2/Northants) killed in the Northern Attack. Frederick Southgate (1/Northants), killed in the Southern Attack. Their eldest (and only surviving) brother died on active service in Mesopotamia in July 1916.

V.

[ianw]

Great work going on to contextualize the British sacrifice at Fromelles. Well done to all concerned - and if the truth get's up anyone's nose, that is their problem.

Victoria - you are so right to give us the human stories to bring the statistics to life.

What a wonderful portrait of Lt Turner we have at post 9 - what a handsome, sensitive face - my goodness, this war cost us so many great people - of all nationalities.

[michel knockaert]

The 2nd Battalion of Royal Munster Fusiliers was in the southern attack.

The eve of the attack, the battalion received general absolution at "l'épinette" (Richebourg l'Avoué) from their chaplain, Father Francis Canon Gleeson (depicted in the famous "Last Absolution of the Munsters", Fortunino Matania's painting).

The British bombardment began at 5 a.m., the Munsters then pressing forward with extraordinary bravery, German fire sweeping No-Mans-Land, some Munsters audaciously charging ahead through the German lines , briefly waving a green flag on its breastwork, then moving beyond until cut off by the British artillery bombardment that followed, which killed many sheltering in shells craters. 11 officers and 140 men were killed in action.

Michel

[Stebie9173]

There were at least two more sets of brothers killed in the Northamptons.

The Felce brothers were both killed with 2nd Battalion (pictures of them are on Stanwick war memorial site, but since I don't have independent copies of those pics, I did not include them in the PDF. See: www.stanwickwarmemorial.co.uk/ )

The Cross brothers of Harlestone were also both killed with 2nd Battalion, as noted on the PDF.

(I have a picture of Walter Fellowes, but not Albert)

It's an odd quirk of battle geography that the missing men of the same battle are commemorated on different memorials - 1st battalion on Le Touret, and 2nd Battalion on Ploegsteert.

Is there anything more needs sorting from my end?

Steve.

[Victoria Burbidge]

I've had a look at the Stanwick War Memorial site and an e-mail has gone hurtling off in that direction. We may be lucky enough to get a few images from there.

The Le Touret / Ploegsteert scenario has always seemed a little strange, particularly when you think of the pairs of brothers who, although killed on the same day, in the same battle, are commemorated on separate memorials. It doesn't seem quite right somehow.

Well, Steve, I think that you can stand down for now, but don't go too far away .............

Thanks for everything you've put together for me. It will be especially wonderful to see these men's photos side by side.

V.

[Victoria Burbidge]

The 2nd Battalion of Royal Munster Fusiliers was in the southern attack.

Looking forward to receiving whatever you material you have. Next year we'll be able to concentrate on the southern attack, but at least we'll have something to show this 9th May.

V.

[stiletto_33853]

Another one for you V

[stiletto_33853]

Another

[Victoria Burbidge]

Thanks Andy. These are incredibly sharp images. Terrific quality. As I've said before, it's wonderful to be able to put faces to names.

Keep them coming.

V.

[J Banning]

Hi Victoria,

I am very pleased to see that it is all progressing so well. I aim to be there with Peter depending upon family commitments. At the moment it is looking more like I’ll be attending than not. Very much looking forward to the day.

All best,

Jeremy

[Victoria Burbidge]

Thank you, Jeremy. I really hope that you can make it. I think that it's going to be a good day. For me, Peter's presence will be the icing on the cake - particularly if he brings all that lovely material he's been promising. I can imagine the effect that such images, etc., will have.

V.

[markivee]

Hi Victoria, and everyone else ..

I'm looking forward to being there on the 9th May - if a little (quite a lot) terrified, but hugely pproud, of what I have been asked to do

Mark.

[Cliff. Hobson]

Victoria,

I have compiled a history of the Soldiers from my Village, here is an extract written quite a while after the war by a man that I knew which may be of interest.

Regards Cliff.

William Setchell’s Account 1914 -1917.

William Setchell enlisted in the Army on 4th September,!914 and served in the 1st Battalion Notts & Derby Regiment, (Sherwood Foresters) wounded on July 5th, 1916 at La Boiselle on the Somme, discharged October 1917.

“Well in detail I have had a marvelous career in my period of 3 years 9 months with the Colours and 2 years and 10 months of this was spent on the Western Front with the 1st Battalion Notts. & Derbys’ in the 24th Brigade, 8th Division. I did not leave the line only once in this period which I will describe in rough outline of the principle events of my career over there, but which is true in every detail, that is why I call myself a very lucky bloke. When I sit and all is quiet the scenes and doings steal in ones mind and as vivid as the day you were there, never to be forgotten and those who did not see it cannot imagine it.

Well here we are here is what I call a brief outline of my service, first into the trenches on March the 5th in 1915, at Neuve Chappel 10 days later the battle of Neuve Chappel, (see below.) over the top with the Indian Troops next to them, we run among the Prussian Guard but only advanced about 1/2 a mile with terrible casualties.

Out and in the line further on the front through April we had 400 fresh men to fill the gaps up, in May 1915, a battle worse than last, at Aubers near La Bassee, we never entered the German front line. *General Cole was killed and here is where I came in, I hid in a shell hole with another Tommy 20 yards from the Germans 1 day and 1 night, posted as missing, I did not find the Battalion for 2 weeks and wished I never had, me and my chum slept anywhere at night and strolled the lanes and ruined hamlets by day given plenty of food by the Gunners and Transport men. Found once more others had been in the same plight, or should I say delight.

.

[Victoria Burbidge]

Cliff, this is quite amazing. I’ve read accounts of men who became detached from their units, but nothing to this extent. What an insight. Quite incredible.

Thank you for posting this. Do you mind if I use it on the day and do you have anything else like this? We’ve had very little stuff through relating to the Sherwood Foresters.

V.

[Victoria Burbidge]

Mark, I think that we all feel the same way – terrified, but very proud.

Liz Milward has very kindly agreed to read The Exhortation and Mark has agreed to read The Kohima Epitaph. I’m delighted as it is only right that the relatives of these men have the opportunity to take an active part in the service.

V.

[Vista52]

I'm London born but I've lived in California for 35 years so my views may be a bit romantic or sentimental. I've always thought that the 23rd Brigade was a great mix of British Accents. My great uncle was in the 2nd Middlesex and would die a year after Aubers Ridge.

The 23rd Brigade had Londoners, Yorkshire men, Devonshire men and the Cameronian Scots. Can you imagine being in the middle of that lot!...Wonderful!

[velo350]

Hi V

The bike's serviced, ferry & hotel booked. I'm really looking forward to meeting every one on 9th May.

As you know, my primary interest is 19th July 1916, but I feel its so important to keep the memories of all the battles in this region alive.

Mike B

[Cliff. Hobson]

#Victoria - further to my previous post.--Bert Harrop (below) was K.I.A 9th May 1915 and is commemorated on the Ploegsteert Memorial



“AUBERS RIDGE”

# “ Sir John French (Commander in Chief) in pursuance of a promise made to the French Army C. in C. to support an attack his troops were making. I directed Sir Douglas Haig to carry out an attack on the German Trenches in the neighbourhood of Rougebanc (North West of Fromelles)”.

War History 1st Battalion Sherwood Foresters “The Sherwood Foresters arrived at the assembly trenches without mishap just after midnight (8th May 1915) The 25th Brigade had suffered very heavy losses attacking the German trenches. On the 9th the 2nd East Lancs., leading attacked, supported by ‘B’ and ‘D’ Companies of the Sherwood Foresters, the attack was almost at once checked by heavy machine gun fire. It was noticeable that our artillery preparation had been wholly insufficient, the enemy’s parapets were undamaged the trenches were held in strength, between points 373 and 375 were eight machine guns, (machine guns could fire at the rate of 500 rounds per minute) It being apparent that the leading Battalion was making no headway ‘B’ and ‘D’ Companies changed direction and advanced against point 373 but still found themselves under machine gun fire. ‘B’ Company managed to get within 40 yards of the German wire; at this time an order, origin obscure from G.O.C. “Stop Advance” it being now noticed that the Berkshire and East Lancashire Battalions were withdrawing to the line of trenches immediately in front of the breastwork, ‘B’and ‘D’ then fell back to re-organise.

The respite was, however very brief, for at 7.35 a.m. The East Lancs., again essayed an advance supported by ‘A’& ‘C’ Companies of the Sherwood Foresters who were now themselves supported by ‘B’& ‘D’ companies but the advance was checked by renewed outburst of shell and Machine gun fire ( Bert, Harrop killed .) the deployed Companies lay down wherever the impetus of the advance had carried them , *and many Officers and men remained out in the open ( see Bill Setchell account)

At 1.15 p.m. the enemy brought an enfilade shell fire on the trenches, there was now something of a lull in the enemy gun fire, but desultory shell fire went on until 7,30 p.m. when the Germans opened up with high explosive causing many casualties among Officers and men of the Battalion. Soon after 10.p.m. the Battalion was relieved and ordered back to Rouge de Bout. Casualties amounted to 56 killed, 257 wounded, 46 missing, total casualties 359, almost half the Battalion strength”.

[LizM]

Hi Victoria and all

Thank you so much for asking me to read the exhultation on May 9th. I feel deeply honoured and even though my Gt Granddad was not killed at Aubers Ridge, he is lying somewhere (everywhere) over Cardonnarie Farm at Fromelles where he was killed by friendly fire on December 18th 1914 and I know that he will be listening as his spirit is in Fromelles and our family have a strong link with the village and its people.

Thank you again V and look forward to meeting you.

Liz

x

[Victoria Burbidge]

I've always thought that the 23rd Brigade was a great mix of British Accents. My great uncle was in the 2nd Middlesex and would die a year after Aubers Ridge.

The 23rd Brigade had Londoners, Yorkshire men, Devonshire men and the Cameronian Scots. Can you imagine being in the middle of that lot!...Wonderful!

I know exactly what you mean. I’ve often wondered the same thing. The 25th Brigade had some American and Australian accents thrown in for good measure. As you say, a great mix.

Was your great-uncle involved in the action at Fromelles?

V.

[Victoria Burbidge]

As you know, my primary interest is 19th July 1916, but I feel its so important to keep the memories of all the battles in this region alive.

my Gt Granddad was not killed at Aubers Ridge, he is lying somewhere (everywhere) over Cardonnarie Farm at Fromelles where he was killed by friendly fire on December 18th 1914

Mike’s grandfather was wounded during the Battle of Fromelles in 1916, dying of his wounds on 20th July. Liz and Mike are helping me to form a link in Fromelles. I need to make our French colleagues in the village acknowledge the British presence – from 1914 onwards. It’s proving difficult ………….

Looking forward to seeing you both on the day.

V.

[Victoria Burbidge]

Casualties amounted to 56 killed, 257 wounded, 46 missing, total casualties 359, almost half the Battalion strength”.

Cliff, thank you for this. It ties in quite well with the figures which Marc Thompson has just produced.

Total Killed: 4 officers, 81 other ranks - Only 8 of these have identified graves, one of which is a special memorial. 77 other ranks are missing and listed on Ploegsteert Memorial.

Average age of fatalities where age is shown = 25.3 years

The youngest officer or other rank was 17 years of age.

The oldest man killed was at 20116 Pte E. Swann at 43 years of age.

V.

[Pete1052]

From The Times

London

April 25, 2009

Forgotten heroes of 1916 massacre will be honoured at last

Melanie Reid

The first new military cemetery to be created by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission since the end of the Second World War will be built for hundreds of soldiers who died in an unsuccessful attack 92 years ago.

In a forgotten massacre of the First World War, British and Australian troops were ordered to attack on the evening of July 19, 1916, near Fromelles, in northern France, advancing over difficult ground in clear view of enemy lines.

The German soldiers, who included a 27-year-old corporal called Adolf Hitler, fired on them as if they were sitting ducks. The British plan to divert German attention from the Somme failed catastrophically.

Within hours, the Australians had lost more than 5,500 men — they were killed, missing or injured. British casualties were more than 1,500. Hundreds of bodies were not recovered and for years the mystery of their whereabouts endured. A week on [sic] Monday a team of specialists will gather to begin disinterring up to 400 bodies from a mass grave in which they were buried, stripped of their dogtags, by the Germans. The soldiers will be laid to rest in individual graves next year for a commemorative event on the anniversary of the battle.

The site at Pheasant Wood is believed to be the largest modern mass grave that was not the result of genocide. It will be examined by 30 archaeologists, anthropologists and radiologists, mostly from the University of Oxford. The work is being co-ordinated by Alison Anderson, 43, and Robert McNeil, 62, experts in body identification who worked for the United Nations in Bosnia and Kosovo and who organised the mortuary after the July 2007 London bombings.

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, acting for the British and Australian governments, said that the cross-referencing of casualty records had yielded possible identities for the dead. DNA samples will be taken that may lead to identifications.

In Britain the Battle of Fromelles was overshadowed by the greater disaster of the Somme, 50 miles away. In Australia Fromelles is almost as notorious as Gallipoli. The battle was the first engagement by the Australian 5th Division on the Western Front and its most costly.

In June 2007, after an Australian member of the public had spent years searching in the area, archaeologists from the University of Glasgow were called in and found the mass grave.

Last year, after a limited excavation requested by the Austrialian Government, five burial pits were identified, believed to contain the remains of 250-400 British and Australian soldiers buried behind German lines. Before the Somme, soldiers wore only one dogtag and these were removed by the Germans, as was accepted practice. Those who can be identified will be buried with headstones giving their names and regiments. Where that is not possible, the headstone will carry the regimental emblem and in some cases the words “unknown soldier”.

One worry is the amount of ordnance that may be buried, including devices hand-made by soldiers who were short of grenades. The recovery team will include an ordnance expert.

Kevan Jones, the Veterans Minister, said: “These men gave their lives for this country and everything possible will be done to identify and then lay them to rest with the full military honours they deserve.

“We need the British public to look back in their family trees and come forward if they believe there is a chance their grandfather or great-grandfather died at Fromelles.”

He urged families who may have lost a relative at Fromelles to check www.cwgc.org/fromelles, set up by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.