Waterlot farm . Somme

[bantamforgot]

Could someone enlighten me as to the name of the artist who resided at the farm before ww1 .

Colin.

[Paul Reed]

What's your source for that? The 'farm' was a sugar refinery and I can't see any artist wanting to stay there to be honest.

[bantamforgot]

I read it in a ww1 book, alas I can't remember but it stated that an English artist of repute resided there before ww1 as I remember,. I know it was a sugar refinery at the time of 1st. Somme . If ever I remember which book I read the details in I will post, I hoped someone might jog my memory.

Regards.

Colin

[bantamforgot]

Hello Paul,

Further information states that "Waterlot farm" was to the Sth. West of Ginchy that may be the residence said artist occupied ?

Why the sugar refinery on the road was named Waterlot farm I know not, however there does appear to be 2 "Waterlot farms"

Perhaps a member in the area could enlighten us?

Cheers.

Colin

[Paul Reed]

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect in stating there were two Waterlot Farms. There was only one, which was west of the road from Longueval to Guillemont. It is also south-west of Ginchy. Pre-1914 there were farm buildings and a farmhouse there, but the whole complex since probably the mid-18th century was a sugar refinery, one of the key crops of the area.

I must confess that in thirty years of studying the Somme, and in my 10+ years of living there, I have never heard of an "English artist of repute" living there. I can't think of any reason why he should?

[bantamforgot]

I bow to your superior knowledge but if/when I find the notation re. the artist at Waterlot I will forward. The name of Michael Stedman keeps appearing in my mind, I will recheck his book on Guillemont.

As for two Waterlot farms , one it appears was a German strongpoint on the road in reality a sugar refinery , the real farm SW Ginchy, ref Gliddon "Battle of the Somme " Topographical History. I may have misread this item but that is how I understand the situation .

Colin.

[Paul Reed]

If you mean the farm on the SW outskirts of Ginchy, then that isn't Waterlot Farm. It is only ever known as 'Ginchy Farm' on period maps.

[bantamforgot]

Thanks Paul , it appears once again that a book on a particular subject is , to say the least misleading.

If you know the book I mentioned perhaps you could explain .

Would you know why the name of "Waterlot" was given to the sugar refinery?

Colin.

[Just Barbara]

I have read that there is, somewhere, a sketch of Waterlot Farm, by Frank Crozier who became a war artist.

Barbara..

[bantamforgot]

Thanks Barbara , I am still trying to locate the item I saw re. the artist who resided at the refinery or perhaps at "Ginchy farm" as related by Paul, .

Colin.

[Paul Reed]

I have read that there is, somewhere, a sketch of Waterlot Farm, by Frank Crozier who became a war artist.

Barbara..

Yes, but that's a wartime sketch when no-one was living there...

Waterlot Farm is the English translation of ferme de Waterlot as far as I know.

[bantamforgot]

Paul,

Just to resolve the problem of the artist at Waterlot farm Siidney Allinson has just told me that his footnote on page 207 of "The Bantams" may have led me to believe he resided there, to quote

"from here had originated the Royal Academy painter famed under the Anglicized name , Sir Ernest Waterlow"

Waterlot still intrigues me , could you enlighten as to what "les vingt waterlot " on the IGN map means, I can't make sense of it.?

Thanks for your input & allowing me to clarify the matter. I presume the Frank Crozier was "The " Frank Crozier?

Regards.

Colin.

[centurion]

I can find no record of a Sir Arthur Waterlow RA however there was a Sir Ernest Albert Waterlow RA (1850 -1919) who mainly painted in England and Switzerland but does appear to also have have stayed and painted in France - he was influenced by the works of the Barbizon School, which took its name from the village of the same name some 30 miles from Paris and which became a centre for plein air painting. Much of his work was done before 1900

[Paul Reed]

Paul,

Just to resolve the problem of the artist at Waterlot farm Siidney Allinson has just told me that his footnote on page 207 of "The Bantams" may have led me to believe he resided there, to quote

"from here had originated the Royal Academy painter famed under the Anglicized name , Sir Arthur Waterlow"

Regards.

Colin.

Not really sure I understand what that quote means; is it implying the artist was named after the farm or the farm after the artist? Or neither of those?

[Paul Reed]

Waterlot still intrigues me , could you enlighten as to what "les vingt waterlot " on the IGN map means, I can't make sense of it.?

Regards.

Colin.

I doubt whether 'Waterlot' has a direct translation that means anything, and 'les vingt waterlot' on the IGN refers to a piece of high ground. The phrase 'les vingts' is used commonly to refer to spurs of ground it seems, but again it doesn't really have a direct translation that means anything. Waterlot may well have been the name of the builders of the farm; I suspect it may be lost in the mists of time.

[centurion]

Not really sure I understand what that quote means; is it implying the artist was named after the farm or the farm after the artist? Or neither of those?

Especially since no such artist appears to have existed - see my previous post. Sir Ernest Albert Waterlow RA who did exist was British born and bred and would not have been named after the farm (or vice versa)

[Paul Reed]

Thanks - I had missed that. Makes the quote even less understandable?

[centurion]

The plot sickens - further investigation shows that Sir Ernest Albert Waterlow RA's full name was Sir Ernest Albert Arthur Waterlow but that he seems not to have used the Arthur! However it still remains true that Waterlow was his original name and not an anglesized version. I wonder could he have stayed at the farm sometime in the late 1800s (and its pure coincidence that waterlot and waterlow are similar)?

Edit Waterlow was born in London - his father was a lithographer - it might just be possible that his father (or even an earlier ancestor) was originally Waterlot and the farm was where the family originated - this would make sense of the footnote - how one would check this out is another matter. Sir Ernest and his work was well kown in the early part of the 20th century

[centurion]

Bit more info which may throw some light.

The Waterlow family were originally Walloons and the name is thought to have been originally Waterloo back in the 17th century (Waterloo - waterlot - waterlow? So Waterlot farm could once have been connected to the family? But long before WW1 as they were well established in London by the beginning of the 19th Century and using the name Waterlow (they later printed banknotes for many countries) On the other hand Sir Ernest did undertake a sketching tour of Picardy (about 1880 or so I suspect) so he could have stayed there.

[bantamforgot]

Thanks for the correction Centurion , I did neglect to give his full name. However your extra information is welcomed as always, as you say there may well be a connection even if slight.

Many thanks Paul for the information on the "vingt" I couldn't make sense of it in that connection.

Perhaps Sidney knows more about a possible connection ?

Colin

[centurion]

Well the Waterlows were originally the Waterlos or Waterlots when they arrived in Britain - in 1620! They were Huguenots of French/Flemish extraction. So possibly Waterlot Farm does represent the original family home and the footnote refers to Sir Ernest or possibly his uncle Thomas Waterlow who was also a well known artist in his day. However neither of them would have lived there.

Mystery solved?

[nigelcave]

Well the Waterlows were originally the Waterlos or Waterlots when they arrived in Britain - in 1620! They were Huguenots of French/Flemish extraction. So possibly Waterlot Farm does represent the original family home and the footnote refers to Sir Ernest or possibly his uncle Thomas Waterlow who was also a well known artist in his day. However neither of them would have lived there.

Mystery solved?

The great (and late lamented) Tony Spagnoly told me twenty plus years ago that they were of the same family as the UK branch, which was engaged in producing high quality paper etc.

[bantamforgot]

Many thanks Centurion & Nigel , as you say mystery solved , it appears the footnote had some credence after all.

Regards.

Colin

[Paul Reed]

I'm not exactly sure it proves anything except these people had a similar name. I don't see any connection, or rather evidence of connection, to the farm on the Somme. The Somme phone book alone shows a dozen or more people with the surname 'Waterlot'.

[centurion]

I'm not exactly sure it proves anything except these people had a similar name. I don't see any connection, or rather evidence of connection, to the farm on the Somme. The Somme phone book alone shows a dozen or more people with the surname 'Waterlot'.

It makes sense of the footnote.