311th Brigade RFA

[Roger H]

As you will see from my number of posts, I am new to all of this so apologies if my questions are naive. I am researching my maternal Grandfather who was Acting Major B Battery, 311th Brigade Royal Field Artillery. Whilst I have managed to glean a fair bit of information about him personally, I am trying to establish the movements of his Brigade. The Long Long Trail site says that the Brigade was part of the 62nd Division from formation in February 1915 until January 1917 when "becoming an Army Brigade". what does becoming an "Army Brigade" mean in practice.

Unfortunatley there is no information on the 62nd Division on The Long Long Trail website at the moment due to site reconstruction. When this is up and running will this be able to provide me with helpful information? And how do I get information post January 1917? Will this mean trying to get hold of the Brigade War Diaries and a trip to Kew?

Any information on 311th Brigade RFA would be gratefully received. Thanks in anticipation.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Roger

Prior to May 1916, each division had four brigades of field artillery: three equipped with 18-pounder guns and one with 4.5-inch howitzers. Territorial brigades started the war with older weapons but these were mostly replaced during 1915.

In May 1916, by which time the brigades were mostly standardised at four batteries of four guns each, the div artillery was reorganised by means of battery swaps, so each of the four brigades consisted of three batteries of 18-pdrs and one (nearly always "D") of howitzers.

At the end of 1916 a decision was made to revert to the pre-war standard of six-gun batteries. Two brigades in each div were made up by breaking up the batteries of a third brigade, and the fourth brigade was withdrawn from the div into a pool of Army Field Artillery Brigades, which were allocated on a temporary basis to Corps, to be used to support the artillery of any division which was attacking. Most of these brigades were similarly made up from four-gun to six-gun batteries.

311 Bde RFA was one such. being converted in late Jan 1917. Its attachments to Corps thereafter were as follows:

25 Jan - 22 March V Corps

27 March - 15 April XVII

15 April - 17 May XIII

24 May - 14 Aug I ANZAC

30 Aug - 3 Sep IX

3 Sep - 6 Sep II

6 Sep - 16 Oct VIII

22 Oct - 18 Nov Canadian

18 Nov - 5 Dec VIII

13 Dec - 12 March '18 Cavalry

12 March - 6 April XIX

6 April - 13 April III

23 April - 15 July XVII

15 July - 30 July Canadian

30 Jul;y - 15 Aug XVII

15 Aug - 2 Nov VIII

3 Nov onwards Canadian

On dates not included above, the brigade was either on the move or resting in the rear.

The War Diary of 311 Bde, from Jan '17 onwards, is in the National Archives at Kew in file WO95/205, under First Army Troops. War Diaries rarely mention men by nameother than officers, but the location of the unit, and a brief description of its activities, is usually given on each day. You may be able to get a copy from the Kew wesite, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk.

There is no War Diary before this, as it was only in that month that 62 Division went to France: units at home did not normally keep diaries.

As an acting Major, your grandfather would have been a battery commander, or possibly the 2i/c of the brigade.

Ron

[Roger H]

Ron

Thanks for this - absolutely brilliant and I will certainly try the website. Where do you get all of this information?! However, I am am confused! According to my Grandfather's MIC (Major Arthur Frankland Hollingworth MC and Bar C de G - often misspelt HollingSworth) he entered the theatre of war in France (as a Bombardier) on 15/4/1915. I know he was originally attached to 6th Battery 2nd (West Riding) Brigade RFA (Territorial) which I understand was re-designated as 311th Brigade sometime in May 1915. If the Brigade was not originally attached to the 62nd Division , have you any information on the Brigades attachment/movements prior to January 1917? I know he went to France in 1915 because I have just found an old newspaper cutting recounting an old comrades assocaition meeting of the 6th Battery 2nd (West Riding) Division at which my Grandfather spoke. They were marking the 43rd anniversary of the day they left for France in April 1915 "one of the first territorial brigades to go".

By the way, you are spot on because I notice my Grandfather is quoted as saying "We took out to France with us a battery of 15 pounder guns which were originally used in the S.African war but these were soon replaced with modern 18 pounders"!

Thanks in advance.

Roger Hildreth

[Ron Clifton]

Roger

This is another case of confusion between first and second-line TF units - a common pitfall for the unwary! On mobilisation, each TF unit and formation formed two components: a first-line unit which contained men willing to serve abroad, and a second-line of men not so willing, or not required, for service at home (the normal TF role). In most cases there was also a third-line unit which served as the depot and draft-finding unit for the other two.

The peacetime West Riding Division TF became 49th Division and its artillery was:

I West Riding Bde RFA: 1, 2 and 3 WR Batts

II West Riding Bde RFA: 4, 5 and 6 WR Batts

III West Riding Bde RFA: 7, 8 and 9 WR Batts

IV West Riding Bde RFA: 10 and 11 WR Batts (these were howitzers)

This division was indeed one of the earliest to arrive in France in 1915.

The second-lineunits formed 62nd Division and its artillery was;

2/I West Riding Bde RFA: 2/1, 2/2 and 2/3 WR Batts

2/II West Riding Bde RFA: 2/4, 25 and 26 WR Batts

2/III West Riding Bde RFA: 2/7, 2/8 and 2/9 WR Batts

2/IV West Riding Bde RFA: 2/10 and 211 WR Batts (these were howitzers)2/

The four RFA brigades of 49th Div were numbered 245. 246, 247 and 248; those of 62nd Div were 310, 311, 312 and 313 although the latter was broken up almost at once to gife the first two a howitzer battery each.

Therefore, it looks as if your grandfather was originally in 6th WR Batt, II WR Bde RFA (later 246th) and was later sent home to command its second-line "daughter".

The War Diary of 246 Bde RFA is also at Kew, in file WO95/2781. It covers April 1915, when they went to France, until Dec 1918.

As you see, it is fairly straightforward once you know your way through the tangle! Good hunting - you should find a reference to your grandfather leaving France and 49th Div in the diary for 246 Bde.

The information on the Army Field Artillery Brigade attachments to Corps comes from file WO95/5494 at Kew, one of the last files in the class, which covers attachments of many non-divisional units. Have a look, if you get to Kew, as I think it also tells you which divisions they supported, which I did not copy into my notes.

Ron

[Roger H]

Ron

Again, absolutely fantastic! The mist of confusion is beginning to lift. What a great resource this forum is! Only just started my interest in WW1 having taken early retirement and beginning with my maternal grandfather (on whom I had more initial information) before I move onto the Hildreths! I know my paternal grandfather was a private in the Yorkshire Regiment and survived but was invalided out. Hos brother was not so lucky (who incidentally semed to have enlisted in the Yorkshire Regiment also, but was in the Middlesex when he was killed - don't know why he transferred, but that is for another day!

[chrislock]

Hi Guys.

A friend of mine has just forwarded this thread onto me. My Grandfather was Harold Alec Holder as in my signature. He was a Gunner in the 311th Brigade, B Battery according to his MRI. He was wounded but survived the war. Family passed down word of mouth confirms he developed terrible PTSD after the war and drank himself to an early death before I was born hence I never met him.

If you have any other information since this thread was created several years ago I would appreciate a heads up please? A photo of a 1917/18 311th Bde or even B Bty gun crew would be wonderful??

I know he was buried within a paupers grave in St Peter's Church Frampton Cotterell Gloucestershire and that is about it.

Roger. It seems as if your Grandfather was my Grandfather's Battery Commander!!

Best wishes

Chris

[Roger H]

Chris

I have been waiting for several years to find someone with a connection! Thanks for your PM. I have replied, saying unfortunately no photo of the Battery, but I do have the war diaries.

Roger

[nigelfe]

A bit of confusion is some of the previous posts. Army Artillery Bdes were not 'attached' to Corps, they were allocated to corps and placed under command of the GOCRA Corps (until late 1915 he had been a BGRA, ie not a commander, and there was a temporary reversion in 1916). Under command meant that the GOCRA could order the Army Bdes to whatever missions were required in the corps. The MGRA at Army HQ could of course advise the Army Commander to place an Army Bde under command of a different corps (MGRA was an advisor, a 'staff officer', not a commander although for a short period mid war he was a GOCRA Army).

The pre-war organisation was a divisional artillery of 4 bdes (ignoring the heavy bty), each of 3 btys, one bde being 4.5. On mobilisation the regular batteries received their reservists and two more guns to make six in three sections. There were supposed to be enough guns in stock to cover TF mobilisation as well, but very quickly it became the norm to leave the TF bdes with 4 guns. 18-pr and 4.5 ran out so many TF and new bdes received 15-pr G and 5 in How. This persisted until 1916 by which time gun and ammo production was reaching full stride.

The problem that had emerged in 1915 was that the need to concentrate btys to support offensives. This meant that divisional artilleries were being regularly split up and then reformed with different units, and there was also a lot of btys always on the move between formations (at horse speed) and not in action.

The solution was to re-organise the RFA, reduce the size of the divsional arty but also stabilise it, and then form the army bdes that could be allocated under command where and when required. As part of this all bdes increased to 4 btys (on paper 3 18-pr, 1 4.5, but the war ended before this was 100% achieved), this had the added benefit of reducing the number of RFA bde HQs with a saving in manpower (ie 12 div arty btys formerly in 4 bdes were now in 3 bdes - 2 div arty, 1 army arty). The next step was to bring all batteries up to 6 guns (including many heavy and siege btys).

Just because the army was confused about the status of senior RA officers until late 1916 doesn't excuse the use of meaningless terms like 'attached' :-)

[olosangus]

You may be interested in a recently published book " Plough & Scatter - The Diary Journal of a First World War Gunner" by J.Ivor Hanson and Alan Wakefield. Recounts Hanson's experiences in 311 Bde.

[Roger H]

You may be interested in a recently published book " Plough & Scatter - The Diary Journal of a First World War Gunner" by J.Ivor Hanson and Alan Wakefield. Recounts Hanson's experiences in 311 Bde.

Thanks. I have the book and my Grandfather gets a lot of mentions. Unfortunately some of his biographical details are wrong due to the records of two "A.Hollingworth's" being in the same file!

Roger

[Marki]

My Great Grandfather was Royal Field Artillery and listed as 311B - he was a driver - I remember him telling me about putting gas masks on the horses before your own. i am wondering if he served with your forbears?

Any information would be appreciated

[Roger H]

Marki

When you say your Great Grandfather was "listed" as 311B, what do you exactly mean? If it was information from a medal index card, this may just be a medal roll number and not an RFA Brigade reference.

Roger

[Marki]

I know he was Royal Field Artillery but the 311B is listed as RFA/311B on his medal card - do you think that is not the Brigade number?

[Roger H]

Marki

That will be a medal roll number, not the Brigade number nor the Battery letter.

Roger

[Marki]

Many thanks for enlightening me. Can you advise how best to trace him - I believe his record was lost in the burnt archives but know for certain that he was Royal Field Artillery and was recruited (probably through Winchester) as a jockey to take care of the horses.

Any information or direction would be appreciated

[Roger H]

I think your best bet is to start a new thread under "soldiers" giving his full name and service number.

Roger

[Marki]

Great stuff - many thanks

[GNH]

I am researching Gunner William Scott of RFA 311th Brigade who died on 19 October 1918. He is buried at Flines les Raches and is the sole WW1 soldier at this cemetery. Any ideas why he might be there 'by himself'? Any suggestions gratefully received.

[Roger H]

GNH

Gunner Scott was killed in action on the 19th October during the final advance. He was in my Grandfather's B Battery. The Battery was passing through Flines-Les Raches when there was an "explosion" - the cause of which I do not know. Accoring to the book "Plough and Scatter" - A diary-journal of a First World War Gunner (J.Ivor Hanson edited by Alan Wakefield) ISBN 9781844257171: "Gunner Scott, quite a young fellow is one of the victims. The civilians were terribly shocked and took the bodies into their houses which we visited in the evening, to see for the last time our dead comrades lying in candlelit bedrooms". This explains why William is buried in the churchyard.

The other Gunner to die was Guinner Percy Loveday. The account above cannot be quite correct because he actually died of wounds and is buriued some kilometres away in Brebieres British Cemetery. My conclusion is that William Scott was killed outright but Percy Loveday received medical treatment some way from the village before dying - hence being buried some way away.

Here is a photo of William's headstone - courtesy of the War Graves Photographic Project. If you think I can be of further help, please let me know. And by the way, what is your particular interest in William Scott?

[GNH]

Thank you very much for this information. I am a genealogist and am researching William Scott for his family

[Roger H]

Well, if his family want to know more about his whereabouts during the war, then tell them to get in touch with me. I have the war diaries of 311th Brigade RFA.

Roger

[GNH]

Thanks for that Roger. However last week I ordered the pages 1 Aug 1918 - 25 Oct 1918 from TNA. I only found this forum and joined after doing that.

[Roger H]

It is very pleasing to know that some relatives of a man who served with my maternal Grandfather are interested. There is another CWGC headstone in the churchyard but the casualty is from WW2.

My offer of more info stands.

Roger

[rflory]

Those interested in the activities of 311th Brigade, RFA may want to obtain a copy of War Services of the 62nd West Riding Divisional Artillery by Colonel A. T. Anderson, CMG.

[Roger H]

Dick

I have my Grandfather's copy of that book. Unfortunately 311th Brigade doesn't get much of a mention because as you will know it became an Army Brigade in January 1917. However, his name appears in the appendices having won the MC and Croix de Guerre.

Roger