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Brass shell cases WW1.


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--Seeking an expert in this field!.

I have two, what I believe to be, WW1 brass shell cases. They are 14 inches high and nearly three and a half inches diameter at base. Ithink they are from 18lb shells. The bases are stamped thus.

"RSL 1161 15 D. Ts. Ec" and the other stamped "REMANIE A. RS. 8. 17"

Would love to know further information about them?

I also have a brass shell cap ( looks from an 18lb shell ) with the following info

FREMO 77 JR &Co 9/17.

Hope someone can throw some light on them "THANKS"

DAVE. B.

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not an expert, but I am sure my 18pounder at home says the year it was made (ie 1915), and I thought it is stamped 18ib. sure someone will shed more light on them

Hi Steve (?)--Thanks for that. I'm sure you are right--there has to be some sort of date on them as you say, I can't see any reference to "18lb" on my ones.Maybe they are french?

They make useful storage for rolled-up trench maps!---( Couldn't think of a better use for them-----although I'm sure someone will come up with one better!). Best wishes--thanks again. Dave. B.

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Hi Dave,

I got mine in Albert a few years back, they had loads at the museum shop, and the French ones looked very similar, IIRC they were a bit smaller. I eventually got a shell to stick in mine, it now has pride of place on my fireplace

Steve

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Maybe they are french?

One certainly seems to be. Remanié means refurbished, recast, refilled perhaps, presumable meaning a shell case that is on its second time or third time around.

cheers Martin B

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One certainly seems to be. Remanié means refurbished, recast, refilled perhaps, presumable meaning a shell case that is on its second time or third time around.

cheers Martin B

Hi Steve and Martin--thanks for info. Interesting--the French one!---Did the British re-use shell cases too?--would shipping them back to the UK have been cost efficient.?

I remember the many boxes of bits and pieces well near the exit from Albert museum-only about 3 years ago!---Is it still there? I remember wondering whether or not to get some helmet "souvenirs"--decided not to ----and regretted it ever since!!

Cheers both. Best wishes. Dave.

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--Seeking an expert in this field!.

I have two, what I believe to be, WW1 brass shell cases. They are 14 inches high and nearly three and a half inches diameter at base. Ithink they are from 18lb shells. The bases are stamped thus.

"RSL 1161 15 D. Ts. Ec" and the other stamped "REMANIE A. RS. 8. 17"

Would love to know further information about them?

I also have a brass shell cap ( looks from an 18lb shell ) with the following info

FREMO 77 JR &Co 9/17.

Hope someone can throw some light on them "THANKS"

DAVE. B.

I can say that FREMO were Frederick Mountford of Birmingham. They also made Mills Bombs.

Gunner Bailey

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Guest KevinEndon

If you rub the bottom of the shell with french chalk dust (puncture repair kit) that will highlight all the dates and letters which are hard to read.

Kevin

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--Seeking an expert in this field!.

I have two, what I believe to be, WW1 brass shell cases. They are 14 inches high and nearly three and a half inches diameter at base. Ithink they are from 18lb shells. The bases are stamped thus.

"RSL 1161 15 D. Ts. Ec" and the other stamped "REMANIE A. RS. 8. 17"

Would love to know further information about them?

I also have a brass shell cap ( looks from an 18lb shell ) with the following info

FREMO 77 JR &Co 9/17.

Hope someone can throw some light on them "THANKS"

DAVE. B.

Hello, Dave - Both of the shell cases are French - the first manufactured in 1915 ("15") and the second in 1917 ("17"). If you could check for markings Like "75 DE C" at the top of each case and give the measurements of the mouth and length of each case, I should be able to tell you more. Regards, Torrey

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Hello, Dave - Both of the shell cases are French - the first manufactured in 1915 ("15") and the second in 1917 ("17"). If you could check for markings Like "75 DE C" at the top of each case and give the measurements of the mouth and length of each case, I should be able to tell you more. Regards, Torrey

Hello, again, Dave - I sent the message above too soon! I reread your posting and see that you did give measurements. They are 75mm French shell cases for the 75mm M1897 field gun, with the measurements of 75x350. They also should have the markings "75 DE C" to indicate "75mm of Campagne." I hope this helps. Regards, Torrey

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I can say that FREMO were Frederick Mountford of Birmingham. They also made Mills Bombs.

Gunner Bailey

Many thanks "Gunner" useful information. I picked up this shell cap from Hill 62 Museum SHOP about 10 years ago. Amazing the info is still intact on these things when you consider what happened to them!

There is also J.R &Co. --would this be where the caps were treated with some sort of priming device or chemical?

Again "thanks"

If you rub the bottom of the shell with french chalk dust (puncture repair kit) that will highlight all the dates and letters which are hard to read.

Kevin

Hi Kevin Thanks for the reply. The stamp marks are all clearly visible-but a useful tip "cheers"

Best wishes/ Dave

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Maybe a picture of each headstamp would help?
.

Hi Ian--thanks for the picture---I can't take a digital photo I'm afraid-----digi camera up the swanee.

All I can say is that the stamps as I have described and not as neat or as orderly as in your photo.--They are in an almost continuous arc aroud the base. The " 1" in each example, is like the continental "1" which can sometimes resemble a "7"

I.e. " RSL 1161 15 D" could also therefore read " RSL 7767 75 D" --the "EC" is on a seperate part of the base. Assuming the confusion is my reading of the "1"-then your explanation of themn BOTH being French makes sense.

THANKS for this info.Best wishes. Dave.

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Hello, again, Dave - I sent the message above too soon! I reread your posting and see that you did give measurements. They are 75mm French shell cases for the 75mm M1897 field gun, with the measurements of 75x350. They also should have the markings "75 DE C" to indicate "75mm of Campagne." I hope this helps. Regards, Torrey

Hi Torrey-Thanks for getting back------From what you and others say there appears no doubt about them both being French. I bought them both at the DISS auction near where I live, for £2 the pair about 3 years ago. Interesting to learn so much from you Guys out there!--I'll keep my eyes peeled when next at an auction--and try to get a couple more that are British. Presumably they would have the "ARROW" mark on them somewhere?

Again "Thanks". Best wishes Dave.

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Hi Torrey-Thanks for getting back------From what you and others say there appears no doubt about them both being French. I bought them both at the DISS auction near where I live, for £2 the pair about 3 years ago. Interesting to learn so much from you Guys out there!--I'll keep my eyes peeled when next at an auction--and try to get a couple more that are British. Presumably they would have the "ARROW" mark on them somewhere?

Again "Thanks". Best wishes Dave.

Hello, Dave - The standard wartime-manufactured British shell case for the 18pdr field gun should indeed have a broad arrow acceptance stamp on the base. It should measure 84x295 (84mm at mouth and 295mm length), and the headstamp should include the markings "18 PDR MK II" at the top. [The remaining headstamp markings will vary considerably, according to manufacturer, date of manufacture, etc.] They are quite common, so you should have no trouble acquiring a couple at reasonable prices. Good luck! Regards, Torrey

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Torrey

Is there an idiot's guide anywhere to the markings on the bottom of shell cases? I've got a cut-off 4.5" on my desk and I have long wondered what the various hieroglyphics meant.

Mine has the following (in no particular order) - CMM on an hourglass shape; CF and then in the centre PB&Co; BS; No.1/II and 1/18.

I managed to work out what 4.5in Howr, 1918 and Lot.5230 meant !

Regards

Brian

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This is my 4.5in How Cartridge Case with charge bags (The charge bags are filled with rice it is for display purposes only)

John

post-1365-1232486392.jpg

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Torrey

Is there an idiot's guide anywhere to the markings on the bottom of shell cases? I've got a cut-off 4.5" on my desk and I have long wondered what the various hieroglyphics meant.

Mine has the following (in no particular order) - CMM on an hourglass shape; CF and then in the centre PB&Co; BS; No.1/II and 1/18.

I managed to work out what 4.5in Howr, 1918 and Lot.5230 meant !

Regards

Brian

Hello, Brian -

I'm not aware of any published reference work about shell case markings, but numerous collectors in Europe are quite expert in identifying what the markings on WWI shell cases represent. I've acquired most of my knowledge about markings from various websites, and they may have contained some errors.

On your shell case, the "CF" represents cordite filled, while the "1/18" of course indicates manufacture in January 1918. I don't know what the other markings mean, but I'm sure some of the advanced collectors who are forum members can tell you.

"BS" might indicate Bethlehem Steel, but my listing states that Bethlehem Steel's marking was "BSC" for Bethlehem Steel Corporation.

What is the length in millimeters of your shell case? It should be either a 114x73 (for the 4.5-in Mark I) or 114x86 (for the 4.5-in Mark II). Many people believe that the howitzer shell cases were cut down, when in reality they were full length.

I'm sorry that I can't be of more help. I'll be interested in what other collectors identify the markings to be.

Regards, Torrey

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John/Torrey

Thank you both for that - as I've learnt something tonight. I too had always assumed it had been cut-off - imagining it to be a similar shape to an 18 Pdr.

Dimensions are 118 diameter (open end) & 86 tall so presumably a MkII. Are those the dimensions you were referring to - as I couldn't get 114 off it?

Might make sense of one of the markings too - No.1/II - with the II referring to MkII ?

Regards

Brian

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After my girlfriend's great-grandmother died, we went through all the mountains of stuff she'd kept. In a can of random coins, there were two metal disks I'm pretty sure are part of American artillery shells, possibly pre-war.

Both are about an inch wide and have "P.E. & M. Co." in raised lettering on them, as well as a raised dotted line around the whole circumference of the disk, about 2mm in from the edge. One disc has "15" deeply embossed into it and the other one has "30". The reverse side is smooth. What are these things? I have found that "P.E. & M. Co." was a Baltimore, Maryland company, which makes sense since the great-grandparents were from Baltimore.

I'll try and post some pictures tomorrow.

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Hello, Brian -

.....On your shell case, the "CF" represents cordite filled, while the "1/18" of course indicates manufacture in January 1918. I don't know what the other markings mean, but I'm sure some of the advanced collectors who are forum members can tell you.

Regards, Torrey

Although CF had originally meant Cordite filled, by WWI the meaning had changed to "Charge Full". The alternative marking was "CR" for "Charge Reduced". When the case was reloaded with either a full or reduced charge an additional "F" or "R" was added after the original stamp.

See Treatise on Ammunition 1915 or Ammunition Markings 1918.

Regards

TonyE

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Here we go:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3427/321578...e547d6c.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3481/321493...fdab61d.jpg?v=0

Since a lot of the coins and tokens that were in the can with these two discs also had holes punched in them, I'm assuming that was something done long after the fact.

I measured them and they're exactly one inch wide.

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Although CF had originally meant Cordite filled, by WWI the meaning had changed to "Charge Full". The alternative marking was "CR" for "Charge Reduced". When the case was reloaded with either a full or reduced charge an additional "F" or "R" was added after the original stamp.

See Treatise on Ammunition 1915 or Ammunition Markings 1918.

Regards

TonyE

PHEWWWW!!-What a lot of info out there about these markings!--Hope an idiots guide to these markings HAS been written-----I would think it should prove very popular. Thanks to all who supplied info, I know so much more about this subject now--and will keep my eyes peeled for British shellcases. Good to know they weren't ALL turned into ash-trays and flower vases! They make great storage for rolled trench maps! By the way--does anyone know if Albert museum still have those boxes of ( safe) battleground "souvinirs" for sale in their shop?

"cheers" Dave. B.

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