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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Sergeant's stripes


Northern Soul

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It indicates that he was a sergeant in the Royal Artillery!

Thank you for being so patient with my request. <_<

His shoulder badges also indicate that he was in the R.F.A. Why would you need an extra badge to emphasise it?

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Pride in the regiment's symbols of its 'colours'?

The sergeants of the Royal Engineers wore/wear a grenade badge above the chevrons.

I cannot say why, or when the practice began, but others may be more learned.

Daggers

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If he were a BQMS he would have a crown above the gun above the chevrons.

Apart from RHA, RFA, RGA gun above chevrons and RE grenade above chevrons, Serjeants of some of the cavalry regiments wore a badge above the chevrons also.

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Gun above stripes = Full Sergeant (Detachment Commander)

No Gun = Lance Sergeant.

Regards

Phil

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I think the reference to "detachment" is Gun Detachment - those manning a gun.

Gun section was two guns with ammunition limbers, GS wagon, drivers etc', two gun detachments and the whole commanded by a Lieutenant.

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I have a photo that shows the men and two guns of 25 Battery RFA with a chalked notice in the centre that says "F Sub-Section" but how widespread that was I haven't a clue. Mind you, Squirrel, you've just made a penny drop. I had wondered why the anti-aircraft units were called Sections rather than Batteries but they only had two guns so what else would the Army call them?

Keith

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Apology - I should have said Gun Sub Section as it is correct - checked the source last night.

Letter from King's Troop RHA sent to me in response to a query about 25 years ago.

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Hello there,

Put me right please- I thought crown above stripes would be Colour or Staff Sergeant (Staff for the Artillery) Quartermaster Sgt insignia would therefore be different - (crown gun & stripes).

Apologies in advance!

Confused!

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I don't know if this helps or hinders things

caption reads R.G.A Sergeant copying down instructions for sos lines . Monchy le Preux 18th march 1918

post-16754-1232117243.jpg

post-16754-1232117640.jpg

Chris

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Apologies for not being clear in my earlier post. Yes, Detchament Commander is the NCO in charge of a Gun Detachment, as Squirrel quite rightly says.

Each individual gun is indeed a Sub-Section, with two guns being referred to as a Section. F Sub-Section referred to above would have been referred to in gunner terms as F-Sub.

Incidentally, terrific photo of the RGA Sergeant.

Phil

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Here's the photograph I mentioned, taken at Lahore in 1913. There are 27 men shown, which seems an awful lot (to ignorant me!) for even two guns, let alone one. What would the complement be for two guns and what would the jobs be within that?

(Edit)If it helps, I've gone over the original with a magnifying glass and think I can see the following:

Sergeant-Major - seated centre front (has extra badge above the gun just under the shoulder seam)

Sergeant to his left (as they are sitting)

Corporal to his right

Six Bombardiers (three each side, seated)

Bombardier Farrier (leaning on gun. legs crossed - pliers above his stripe)

Seventeen Gunners

Keith

post-5629-1232212726.jpg

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Grovelling apology for my earlier post!!!

I was incorrect with the rank of Lance Sergeant at this time. Up until 1920 the ranks would have been, Gunner, Bombardier (one Stripe), Corporal (two Stripes) and Sergeant (Three Stripes with gun above). On 1st May 1920, the rank of Corporal was abolished in the Royal Artillery. All existing Corporals became Lance Sergeants and wore three stripes without the gun. From 1st May 1920 until 1946 (when Lance Sergeants themselves were abolished) the ranks were: Gunner, Lance Bombardier (one Stripe), Bombardier (Two Stripes), Lance Sergeant (Three Stripes) and Sergeant (Three Stripes with gun above).

Incidentally, I would be inclined to think that the soldier referred to in Rockdoc's last post isn't a Sergeant-Major, but rather a Staff Sergeant (Three Stripes, Gun and Crown above).

Off the top of my head, I can't recall the full establishment for a Sub-Section, but it is possible (and this is only my opinion, and therefore most likely incorrect) that the photograph includes drivers, gunners, NCO's and of course those gunners and NCO's from the sections ammunition wagons. However, I stand to be corrected on that last point.

Hope that makes things a little clearer.

Phil

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Incidentally, I would be inclined to think that the soldier referred to in Rockdoc's last post isn't a Sergeant-Major, but rather a Staff Sergeant (Three Stripes, Gun and Crown above).

Just me showing my not-inconsiderable levels of ignorance, I'm afraid. <slaps wrist!> You can't see the badge itself, just a roundish bulge on the sleeve.

Off the top of my head, I can't recall the full establishment for a Sub-Section, but it is possible (and this is only my opinion, and therefore most likely incorrect) that the photograph includes drivers, gunners, NCO's and of course those gunners and NCO's from the sections ammunition wagons. However, I stand to be corrected on that last point.

Hope that makes things a little clearer.

Yes, Phil, it does. When I saw the farrier I wondered whether all the supporting troops were present, as it semed far too many to be the men working the guns themselves. As the three batteries od XLVI Brigade were back from India in January 1914 I wonder whether this was one of their last chances to have a photograph taken before they started the move to the port.

Keith

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  • 2 years later...

QUOTE (Op-Ack @ Jan 17 2009, 07:58 PM) Incidentally, I would be inclined to think that the soldier referred to in Rockdoc's last post isn't a Sergeant-Major, but rather a Staff Sergeant (Three Stripes, Gun and Crown above).

Just me showing my not-inconsiderable levels of ignorance, I'm afraid. <slaps wrist!> You can't see the badge itself, just a roundish bulge on the sleeve.

QUOTE Off the top of my head, I can't recall the full establishment for a Sub-Section, but it is possible (and this is only my opinion, and therefore most likely incorrect) that the photograph includes drivers, gunners, NCO's and of course those gunners and NCO's from the sections ammunition wagons. However, I stand to be corrected on that last point.

Hope that makes things a little clearer.

Yes, Phil, it does. When I saw the farrier I wondered whether all the supporting troops were present, as it semed far too many to be the men working the guns themselves. As the three batteries od XLVI Brigade were back from India in January 1914 I wonder whether this was one of their last chances to have a photograph taken before they started the move to the port.

Keith

Keith, I am led to believe that until 1915 BSMs and BQMS both wore 3 stripes, gun and crown above, although I am unclear how they were differentiated.

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Thanks for this. I haven't yet looked into the organisation of a RFA Battery and which ranks and how many of each were associated with a Subsection. Every little helps!

Keith

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post-46676-0-17979400-1309252733.jpg
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Here's the photograph I mentioned, taken at Lahore in 1913. There are 27 men shown, which seems an awful lot (to ignorant me!) for even two guns, let alone one. What would the complement be for two guns and what would the jobs be within that?

(Keith

Keith

Can you see what is written on the board ?

Ian

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