169 Brigade RFA

[Chris Bayley]

Dear clk and charlie962,

 

Many thanks for your further discoveries in relation to my grandfather and your advice about where I might look for further information. 

 

I was particularly excited to find under the header, '378 Battery' (for which he served under) an enquiry by Peter Sloan whose Great Uncle was Gunner William Cutherbert Sloan who not only served in the same battery but is cited as being killed on 12th August 1917 in my grandfather's old penciled note pad which I believe he was carrying with him on the western front. Furthermore, Peter mentions that three other men died with William Sloan and my father also names these three men as well. He only makes reference to a few other men killed around the time, with dates unknown, so I am wondering whether William and the three others had special significance to, and possibly fighting alongside, my grandfather at the time. Could it be that they were part of the same gunnery team which I believe had six members in total? As you have discovered, charlie968, my grandfather sustained his gas injuries four days before these other men died and I know my grandfather, William Henry Lewis, to have been back in England for treatment by 15th August 1917. Would there be any records of specific gunnery team members at the time?

 

Thanking you both in anticipation of any response.

 

kind regards,

 

Chris Bayley.      

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Chris Bayley said:

As you have discovered,

It was Chris (clk) who actually located the service record.

 

There are unlikely to be any records of men in sections or gun teams. Only personal diaries sometimes record this or the War Diary may occasionaly say a shell fell on X gun and three men were killed. Just chance if you find such a note but always worth looking. If your GF mentioned the death of those men four days after he himself had been gassed then it suggests they were close could have alll worked together in the same section. Or perhaps William Sloan joined up with him although their numbers are completely different ?

 

These are the 4 men:

                

 

edit- Downs has a number not far from his ?

 

Charlie

Edited 23 August , 2018 by charlie962

[Chris Bayley]

Dear Charlie962,

 

Many thanks for your reply. My grandfather's notepad, although what remains of it is very incomplete, does detail his movements on the western front in the final days of the war (he obviously went back out again after recovery from his injuries). Where he list the death of these four men he also makes reference to the cemetery, in Armentiers, where they are buried. It seems he possibly visited the cemetery on his return and maybe discovered their fate then. Given Downs army number, is it likely that the Piccadilly Enlistment Centre would have been issuing consecutive numbers within the range of my grandfather's, as seems likely?      

[David Porter]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Downs has a number not far from his ?

 

The 6717xx numbers come from large blocks of transfers to 65th (Lowland) Divisional Ammunition Column sometime between September 15, 1916 and December 9, 1916. Initially renumbered within 5017 - 5608, they came from various Territorial reserve brigades (Nos. 1, 2 or 6). If there is another number it should indicate which of these reserve brigades they came from. The batteries destined for the new 169th Brigade RFA were raised in the 65th Divisional area, which was around Chelmsford, from December 1916. They went to Ireland when the Division was moved there. Having relocated to Heytesbury in April 1917 they were finally formed an army brigade. Therefore it is not surprising to find similar numbers in the batteries. 

 

EDIT: I see from his service record that William Henry Lewis joined No. 6 Reserve Brigade RFA, Luton, as 173550 in November 1916, on transfer to 65 DAC was 5270 which was converted on TF renumbering to 671707, lastly a transfer to the Labour Corps gave a number of 575179 (under which his file can be found)

Edited 23 August , 2018 by David Porter
Additional information

[Chris Bayley]

Dear Charlie 962, Clk,David Potter, and rfloy,

 

I have some specific questions regarding the organisation and function of gunnery teams on the front line and wondered if you could help me with your further knowledge? Firstly, if gunnery teams to the 18 pounders consisted of six men did they tend to stick together as a team (injury or death not withstanding) throughout the war? Also given the skill involved in functioning well as a team, did gunners always tend to function as a number 4 or a number 2, for example, or were they ordinarily switching roles from time to time? Finally, I know my grandfather's 378 Battery was significantly diminished after the death of Major Wall on 6th June 1917 from 283 men to 103. Would the battery have been quickly replenished with new gunners drafted into the Battery and, if so, would the existing, more experienced men, stick with any original teams, within which they were operating, or would they have been split between any new arrivals given the benefit of their greater experience of front line action?

 

Thank you in anticipation of any replies.

 

Kind regards,

 

Chris Bayley.     

[macgormain]

Hi All,

 

Apologies if I am posting in the wrong places - please forgive a novice!

 

I have posted the information below to the whole forum (I hope!) but noticed this particular thread about 169 Brigade RFA and thought you may be able to help - many thanks indeed if you can.

 

"Wonder if anybody can help?

 

My GUncle was 13649 Sgt Thomas GORMAN born 1891 and lived at 57 Higher Temple Street, Manchester.

 

His "Absent Voters" record, in 1918, indicates that he was part of "169th Brigade A.F.A.".

 

Additional information: "Awarded Military Medal (MM) for gallantry in action against the enemy. Third Battle of Ypres. Published in London Gazette, 18 July 1917".

 

I know this might be a needle in the proverbial haystack.. but wondered if anybody might have some information about this?

 

(His two brothers also fought in France - 9320 John Gorman, DoW - 26 Aug 1914 at Le Cateau and my GF 2408 Chris Gorman who fought in France & Salonika and (luckily for me!) survived the War - both served with the 2 Manchesters).

 

Kind regards,

 

Michael"

[DavidOwen]

To avoid duplication of effort here is Michael's main thread