Gallipoli - Dardanelles - Army Chaplains

[michaeldr]

In case they have not been seen before, here are some photogrtaphs in the IWM's collection which may be of interest

Said to be the original grave of Father William J Finn (died at V Beach, 25^th April1915)
see http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205351884

Conference of Chaplains, Helles, Whit Monday, 24 May 1915.
See http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205351929

[by the way -What is the collective noun for a group of Chaplain's?]

Four months later some Chaplains at ANZAC had a get-together in September 1915:
Merrington, King, Dale, McMenamin O'Connor & Crozier
see http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205027880

regards

Michael

[StuartAB]

Sorry, just discovered this forum. My grandfather Rev Richard Henry Burdon Cattell was a padre at Gallipoli according to family sources. I do not have documentary evidence for this. He was better known for playing rugby for England between 1895-1900. He was a curate in Tring after the war, subsequently had parishes in Watlington and Warham in Norfolk.

If you want more info, the Chaplains' Department Archives and Library - archivist David Blake - at Amport House (google!) may have more details about your grandfather.

Stuart

[kenf48]

Sorry, just discovered this forum. My grandfather Rev Richard Henry Burdon Cattell was a padre at Gallipoli according to family sources. I do not have documentary evidence for this. He was better known for playing rugby for England between 1895-1900. He was a curate in Tring after the war, subsequently had parishes in Watlington and Warham in Norfolk.

The Reverend R. H. B. Cattell M.A. Matriculated Exeter College Oxford University 1890. The school and universities roll on FMP shows service from 9 August 1915 which is when he should be in the London Gazette appointed Chaplain to the Forces 4th Class. Unfortunately searching the LG is like the seventh circle and I can only find one reference from 1918

London Gazette 18 December 1918

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31064/supplement/14690

His medal index card, available free from Ancestry shows he landed at Gallipoli August 1915, where he was attached to 53rd (Welsh) Division Casualty Clearing Station. He was later attached to 53rd Division Royal Field Artillery.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=medalrolls&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=R.+H.B.&gsfn_x=0&gsln=Cattell+&gsln_x=0&cpxt=1&cp=11&MSAV=1&uidh=yi4&ti=5538&pcat=MIL_AWARDS&fh=0&h=1663807&recoff=9+10+11+12&ml_rpos=1

However the Medal Roll shows disembarkation 12 September 1915. I can't find a war diary for 53rd CCS but the Field Ambulances show a draft of RAMC personnel arriving on that date.

See the parent site the LLT for an introduction to the 53rd Division

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/53rd-welsh-division/

You will see the artillery did not go to Gallipoli and he joined them in Egypt.

He was back in the UK by September 1917 when he was appointed Vice President of the local Bible Society and the Bucks Herald Saturday November 17 reported on a meeting of the Wigginton Church of England Men's Society where R.H.B. Cattell addressed the society on his experiences as Chaplain to the Forces in Gallipoli and Palestine. Available on FMP, which you can access on a £1 trial for a month. There is a thread on the forum where members share the current offer code (don't forget to cancel).

I also found a reference to the LG September 9 1915 noting his appointment dating from August 9th

I'll let you look for that!

Ken

[Guest]

Mate,

Fromelles mentioned

3rd Light Horse Brigade - Fr D F McGrath

Embark rolls show;

MAKEHAM Edward Rev Capt 3 LH Bde HQ HQ CoE Chaplain 4th Class (G) to Chaplain 3rd class 3 AGH 10-16 to 3 Bde HQ 8-17 att 3 FAmb 10-17 and 10Bn 10-17 att 3 FAmb 5-18 OBE & MID - reasons not stated F&B to AIF depots Tidworth UK 6-18 to T/Chaplain 2nd class 10-18 (Sudan 1885 and Boer War Royal Navy 12 years) (Chaplain 4th Class 5MD 21-3-06 CMF)

McGRATH Daniel Francis Rev Capt 3 LH Bde HQ HQ RC Chaplain 4th class att Chaplain RHQ/9 LHR 11-14 remain Egypt disch 8-9-15 MU age

MOORE William Archibald Rev Capt 3 LH Bde HQ HQ CE chaplain 4th class att 8 LHR remain Egypt? to Chaplain RHQ/Comp LHR 11-15 att 9 LHR 2-16 to 2 ASH 3-16 to Chaplain 3rd class 10-16 to ASC depot UK 7-17 to 11 Bde HQ 9-17 att 39Bn prom T/Maj chaplian 2nd class 10-18 F&B (Boer War Cpl 3 NSWMR (784)

As far as I can find McGrath and possibly Moore didn't go to Anzac but who replaced them needs more checking.

2nd LH Bde

MILLER James Keith Rev Capt 2 LH Bde HQ HQ Pres Chaplain 4th class att RHQ/6 LHR 11-14 to RHQ/7 LHR 2-15 (G) disch 6-1-16 MU enteric relist ACD Chaplain 4th class to London UK (Capt Rev 22-4-12 CMF) born 24-6-1870

ROBERTSON Theodore Gordon Rev Capt 2 LH Bde HQ HQ Cong Chaplain 4th class att RHQ/7 LHR 11-14 att RHQ/6 LHR 2-15 T/att 3 Bde HQ 7-15 rtn 9-15 (G) disch 3-4-16 MU typoid brothers Sydney Maj 9Bn KIA and Harold 1 ASH

TUBMAN Francis de Moag Rev Capt 2 LH Bde HQ HQ CoE chaplain 4th class att RHQ/05 LHR 11-14 remain Egypt with rear Dtls to ADBD 5-16 to Chaplain 3rd class 10-16 F&B to AIF depots UK 8-17 to Aust Ammo workers at Kensington UK 11-17 (Kaitangata Rifles FCo/1Bn The Otago Rifle Volunteers & Otago Hussars to ACD 1909 CMF)

S.B

[aussiesoldier]

Father J D Murphy is listed on http://chaplains.ww1anzac.com/m.html

Wounded in battle and never recovered fully according to this entry. It says he replaced Father D F McGrath who was serving with the 3rd ALH at Gallipoli.

Have no idea if this helps.

[seaJane]

Sorry, just discovered this forum. My grandfather Rev Richard Henry Burdon Cattell was a padre at Gallipoli according to family sources. I do not have documentary evidence for this. He was better known for playing rugby for England between 1895-1900. He was a curate in Tring after the war, subsequently had parishes in Watlington and Warham in Norfolk.

The best place to contact for information is probably the Army Chaplaincy Museum at Amport - a google search will find it.

sJ

[kenf48]

The best place to contact for information is probably the Army Chaplaincy Museum at Amport - a google search will find it.

sJ

As he never came back I guess he followed the same advice in post 77 doesn't appear interested enough to acknowledge pointers given here.

Ken

[seaJane]

Oops, this thread is a lot longer than I thought! Thanks Ken and apologies for reinventing the wheel.

[Guest]

Mate,

"It says he replaced Father D F McGrath who was serving with the 3rd ALH at Gallipoli"

According to the 9th LHR unit history, both men are not shown on Anzac?

McGrath's file makes no claim of him being on Anzac and he returned in Aug 1915

Murphy like wise arrived on Anzac Aug/Sept 1915 with 5 Bde and also shown with the 19th Bn AIF but he is not mentioned in either war diary?

The 3rd LH Bde and 9th LHR war diaries are also quiet on seeing Chaplain Murphy and his wounding 10-11-15?

Murphy's file is also quiet on where he was when wounded, as his file shows the unit as the 19th Bn AIF?

Its a strange one for sure.

S.B

[Guest andrewcooper]

As he never came back I guess he followed the same advice in post 77 doesn't appear interested enough to acknowledge pointers given here.

Ken

Just got back to the forum, apologies, thanks for information, I will get to work.

[michaeldr]

Has anyone any details please regarding CoE Chaplain W. Warburton 

From a document for a casualty buried at Hill 10, the Rev Warburton was working there in September/November 1915, possibly longer

 

Thanks in advance

Michael

 

 

[Ron Clifton]

On 21/10/2015 at 13:59, michaeldr said:

by the way -What is the collective noun for a group of Chaplain's?

A Chapter, I believe.

 

Ron

[michaeldr]

27 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

A Chapter, I believe.

 

Now why didn't I think of that? 

Many thanks Ron & a Happy Easter

......................................................

 

I hope that it's not another four years before someone turns up with info on the Rev Warburton

 

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Has anyone any details please regarding CoE Chaplain W. Warburton 

From a document for a casualty buried at Hill 10, the Rev Warburton was working there in September/November 1915, possibly longer

 

Thanks in advance

Michael

 

 

 

The Reverend Walter Warburton was educated at University College, Durham where he was a member of the Officer Training Corps.  He graduated B.A. in 1912 and was appointed Curate of St Oswalds Guseley until war was declared.  He volunteered and was appointed Temporary Chaplain to the Forces (4th Class) 3rd October 1914.

 He remained in the Army until 1919. His record is at TNA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C741818

 

After the war he was Vicar of St Edwards Holbeck 1919-1923,  and then the Vicar of Whitkirk as shown in Crockfords (1932).

 

The Medal Rolls show he entered theatre ‘July 1915’ I suspect, given his connections, with the 11th (Northern) Division.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

[seaJane]

I have just realised that since I last posted in this thread I have discovered a source listing all the chaplains with the RND. More when I get home to my laptop.

[michaeldr]

Ken,

 

That's great info; thank you 

8 hours ago, kenf48 said:

I suspect, given his connections, with the 11th (Northern) Division.

Yes, I think that you're right there

He officiated at six burials on the list I have seen and all were 11th Div.

Thanks again

........................................................................................................................

 

Looking forward seeing that RND list which you have Jane

 

 

Happy Easter to everyone

Michael

[seaJane]

On 21/04/2019 at 06:37, michaeldr said:

Looking forward seeing that RND list which you have Jane

 

Sorry to have kept you waiting!

 

Collated from a basic list of names ("Reverend Failes" &c) in Gaskell, with details added from the Navy List and the Discovery catalogue of TNA.

 

Bibliographical reference for the list in Gaskell is:- Gaskell, A. Official History of the Medical Unit of the Royal Naval Division from its inception to the evacuation of Gallipoli. [part 3]. Journal of the Royal Naval Medical Service, vol. 12 (1926), p. 52.

 

1st Field Ambulance

Reverend Bernard James Failes (Acting Chaplain for Temporary Service)

2nd Field Ambulance

Reverend Robert Primrose (Honorary Chaplain, RNVR)

Reverend Henry Clapham Foster (Acting Chaplain for Temporary Service).

Reverend Green: not in Navy List, but see RC Chaplain Eric Green https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7278627

Reverend Richard Bevill Middleton Close (Acting Chaplain for Temporary Service).

3rd Field Ambulance

Reverend Charles Wilfrid Gwennap Moore (Acting Chaplain for Temporary Service).

Reverend Hallding: not in Navy List, but see Acting Chaplain (Wesleyan) Percy Hallding https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7278665

 

 

 

Edited 29 April , 2019 by seaJane
adding reference

[michaeldr]

Many thanks Jane

[Guest]

On 22/10/2015 at 22:57, StuartAB said:

If you want more info, the Chaplains' Department Archives and Library - archivist David Blake - at Amport House (google!) may have more details about your grandfather.

Stuart

Here is a rowing trophy won by him at Oxford in 1897.

 

 

Edited 2 August , 2020 by Guest
wrong pic ...